Did Jesus have human form prior to becoming man?


#1

Since Jesus existed from the beginning, did he have a human form at that time? In other words, is this how man is created in God’s image, since the image (in the form of a human) preexisted mankind?


#2

This is something I got from Vinny Flynn’s 7 Secrets of the Eucharist:

The Church teaches that at the words of Mary’s Fiat:Let it be done to me according to your word,” a human nature, with a body and a soul, was created from her through the power of the Holy Spirit and was fused forever to the divine nature of the second person of the Trinity.

As the Catechism explains,
[This] does not mean that Jesus Christ is part God and part man, nor does it imply that he is the result of a confused mixture of the divine and the human. He became truly man while remaining truly God. *#464

  • Jesus Christ is one divine person with two distinct natures — one totally human, one totally divine. These two natures are so inseparable that the divine person of Christ “remained united to his soul and body, even when these were separated from each other by death” (CCC #650); and, when the Father raised Christ up. He “perfectly introduced His son’s humanity, including His body, into the Trinity” *(CCC *#648).

#3

Thanks, but I don’t think this quite answers my question. Here is my question; if you could somehow go back in time, prior to creation, and “see” Jesus, would he have the image of a human? Or putting it another way, did He create man to share his preexisting image; ie, man made in God’s image?


#4

No. As it said,
a human nature, with a body and a soul, was created from her through the power of the Holy Spirit and was fused forever to the divine nature of the second person of the Trinity.

Jesus certainly could have appeared in any way, shape, or form prior to the Incarnation. But His physical Body was created at the Incarnation.


#5

Hi Upbeatjohn,

To make it clear as spring water, “Jesus” did not exist before he was conceived. God, the Word, the second person of the Trinity existed from all eternity. But he had no human form.

Verbum


#6

To make it clear as spring water, “Jesus” did not exist before he was conceived

Hi

Quran mentions it like thus:

[4:172] O People of the Book! Exceed not the limits in your religion, and say not of Allah anything but the truth. Verily, the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of Allah, and a fulfilment of His word which He had sent down to Mary, and a mercy from Him. So believe in Allah and His Messengers, and say not, ‘They are three.’ Desist, it will be better for you. Verily, Allah is the only One God. Holy is He, far above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth. And sufficient is Allah as a guardian.
Unquote

So the Word became manifest when GodAllahYHWH spoke it and with this good tiding Mary got conceived, and it took human form in due course of time when his mother delivered him.

I think that clarifies the whole matter.

Thanks


#7

Your question assumes that Jesus existed in time before he became flesh. That is incorrect. God exists outside of time. And because of this, The Word has always (another time-related word, sorry!) been Jesus Christ. Thus in the Nicene Creed we acknowledge that it is Jesus Christ who is eternally begotten of the Father.


#8

But then why did Jesus say “before Abraham was, I AM”. The second person of the trinity has always been Jesus, right?

What does it mean in the creation story, “Let’s make man in Our image”? What image is this?


#9

Were the three visitors that Abraham entertained the Trinity?

Could that have been a case before the Incarnation of Jesus of the Trinity Appearing in human form?


#10

No, he didn’t


#11

I have learned recently (from Frank Sheed’s "Theology for Beginners), that there is no change in Heaven. For that matter, there is no change in God. How does it work then, that something was “added” to God the Son?


#12

No

No, that is not what it means to be created in the image of God. To be created in His image means to have a immortal, spiritual soul, whose principle actions are knowing and loving (intellect and will). This is what makes us like God.


#13

Guys, ya’ll are all over the map. Listen to the Creed:

"He was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, and became Man".


#14

Were the three men who visited Abrahm the Trinity, angels, or humans?


#15

Well, they were described as angels when they traveled on to Gomorrah, weren’t they?

If you look at how much bread Sarah was asked to make, you must also assume they weren’t human. If I remember correctly, Abraham asked Mary to make enough bread for 120 people.


#16

“human form”. That would mean: in the appearance of a man although not necessarily a man. The question is a bit misleading, because before He became flesh, He was already God. Being God, He has the power to appear in any form He likes. He even appeared in the form a rock and followed the Israelites in their journey in the desert. If we say He has a human form, we seem to limit Him to the form of a man. This certainly is contrary to the truth of the power of divinity. Therefore, my answer to the question is: Jesus had the power to appear in any form before he became flesh and, even afterwards, but He is not limited to that particular form.

God’s image is “Holiness”. That is why He said, You should be holy because I am holy.


#17

Hi Upbeat,

You askjed about “I am”.

When you go back to the Old Testament and God’s revelation to Moses about His Name (I am), you realize that by saying this, Jesus is stating His Divinity.

Jesus is two natures and one person. That person is divine and is from eternity.

Verbum


#18

I have learned recently (from Frank Sheed’s "Theology for Beginners), that there is no change in Heaven. For that matter, there is no change in God. How does it work then, that something was “added” to God the Son?

God does not change. But he is active. An action of God does not change Him. In the incarnation he “assumed” our humanity, was not transformed by it. See the Catechism of the Catholic Church :

****470 ****Because “human nature was assumed, not absorbed”, in the mysterious union of the Incarnation, the Church was led over the course of centuries to confess the full reality of Christ’s human soul, with its operations of intellect and will, and of his human body. In parallel fashion, she had to recall on each occasion that Christ’s human nature belongs, as his own, to the divine person of the Son of God, who assumed it. Everything that Christ is and does in this nature derives from “one of the Trinity”. The Son of God therefore communicates to his humanity his own personal mode of existence in the Trinity. In his soul as in his body, Christ thus expresses humanly the divine ways of the Trinity:

The Son of God. . . worked with human hands; he thought with a human mind. He acted with a human will, and with a human heart he loved. Born of the Virgin Mary, he has truly been made one of us, like to us in all things except sin.

Verbum


#19

This is an ancient and difficult question.

They were not the Trinity. No one has ever seen the Father at any time; Jesus has explained Him. We only see God through Christ; we do not see Him with our own eyes. Of the Trinity, only Jesus has taken on human form. Whenever we see God in the Old Testament, we see Jesus Christ.

Were they more than men? Seemingly, from the text.

Were they angels? Probably the best explanation. We know that John was confused in the presence of an angel in the book of Revelations, where he attempted to worship the angel and was rebuked. At times the “angel of the Lord” and the Lord seem to appear so close as to be the same thing, yet they are distinct. The angel of the Lord so effectively represents God that we mistake the one for the other, seemingly.

I expect Augustine addressed the question in his work “On the Trinity” - which you might look into. It’s on my reading list, but I haven’t gotten there yet!


#20

John1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
…and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.:thumbsup:
Jesus is God, the second Person of the Holy Trinity, he took His flesh from His Mother, the Blessed Virgin Mary. (The Incarnation).:thumbsup:


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