Did Jesus use the Kabbalah (Merged threads)

I have heard that certain Jewish mystics claim and believe that Jesus used techniques from the Kabbalah. He apparently learned these from the Essenes, who were a mystical jewish sect at the time.

jewfaq.org/kabbalah.htm

So my question is this…would it be a heresy or fallacy to believe that Jesus used these means?

I highly doubt it, since the Kabbalah as we know it - despite the traditional claim that it came all the way back from Moses - did not even take shape until the Middle Ages I believe.

I am curious.

The Catholic Encyclopedia regarding the Book of Creation states:

newadvent.org/cathen/08590a.htm

“It professes to be a monologue of the patriarch Abraham…Of course, the Book of Creation does not go back to Abraham, as has been claimed by many Kabbalists. Its ascription by others to Rabbi Akiba (d. A.D. 120) is also a matter of controversy.”

Judaism 101 says:

jewfaq.org/kabbalah.htm

“The Talmud contains vague hints of a mystical school of thought that was taught only to the most advanced students and was not committed to writing. There are several references in ancient sources to ma’aseh bereishit (the work of creation) and ma’aseh merkavah (the work of the chariot [of Ezekiel’s vision]), the two primary subjects of mystical thought at the time.”

So it appears, the 2 sources are contradicting each other.

My question is how can we know the Catholic Encyclopedia’s statement is true?

…and even if the Kabbalah was around during the time of Abraham…does that debunk Christianity in any way?

The answer would be I don’t know if I were a Catholic.
To be fair, I am not one.
If I were,
I would say and be able to defend that yes, Jesus knew everything as he was God in the flesh and knew all things.
Some may doubt.
Can’t help you with that.
Jesus was God in the flesh and must have had knowledge of things here, to warn us about.
He trusted lots and lots of things to mere scientists to teach to his creation that would save lives like the thing we call Germ Theory,’
Never got the heads up on that one reading the bible.

We can only decide if we trust the CE or not. We cannot live long enough to prove everything for ourselves, so we have to trust scholarship at some point.

The Kabbalah is only a Jewish sideline, and in any case, Christianity is joined to Judaism only by the body of our LORD, and not by Jewish practice. However old Kabbalah may be, it does not and cannot disprove our LORD.

ICXC NIKA.

Kabbalah is modern teaching. It is purported to be the “mystical interpretation” of the Zohar and the Torah. The Torah is the first five books of the old testament. The Zohar is considered to be the word of God as told to Moses, Abraham, and Enoch.

Because Kabbalah is the mystical interpretation, a mystic is required. As needed, God gives a person the ability to interpret the books. This person gives a new and advanced teaching.

The answer is Yes, it is both heresy and fallacy to believe that Jesus used mystical techniques learned from the Jews.

The term mystical techniques is used instead of magic, but magic is what the author is talking about. Magic is rebuked by the Church. Jesus was God incarnate. To believe that He needed to use magical techniques is to deny His divinity.

Kabbalah did not exist during the time of Christ, but there have always been mystics. And… true Kabbalah is not a magical teaching.

Is there anything like this in Catholicism?

And since these Jews have very advanced mystical knowledge, does that give them more knowledge in terms of defining doctrine than Christians regarding scripture and the nature of God’s logic? since I don’t think Christianity has anything like this.

Kabbalists don’t have advanced mystical knowledge. They have a system which is predicated upon false assumptions. They are completely lacking knowledge of the Trinity. A system cannot go very far in the right direction when it ignores God’s teachings.

There are many Catholic mystics. Our faith is so rich and varied that a person can immerse himself in many different disciplines. Become familiar and try to practice the nine levels of prayer that are taught by St. Theresa and St. John of the Cross. That’s true mysticism. Pray the rosary diligently. We can participate in the greatest mystery of all - The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass during which are united with all the saints and angels while participating in the magnificent sacrifice of the Son to the Father.

PM me if you want to know about my experiences with Kabbalah or other esoteric systems.

It occurred to me perhaps why one might think that Kabbalah contains advanced mystical knowledge. It’s complicated. Kabbalah is hard to understand. A person can spend his entire life studying. I was completely intrigued by the complexity.

Complexity does not equal truth. Mystical knowledge must be based in truth or it’s just mental calisthenics.

Look up Christian Hermeticism. There is a famous book called Meditations on the Tarot which compares the truth of Catholicism to that of other religions and takes a detailed look at Kabbalah, Buddhism, Hinduism, Jungian psychology, and just about every other system on the planet and is the most fair and accurate presentation of these systems from anyone I have ever seen, yet overall he finds that the truths revealed in the Catholic tradition far exceed those of all other religions both mystical and esoteric. This is the book which led me back to the Catholic Church and away from a more eclectic belief system. This man was a former Anthroposophist, Rosicrucian, Kabbalist, and found the truth contained in the Catholic Faith. Cardinal Hans Ur Von Balthasar, one of Pope Benedict’s favorite theologians had actually wrote the foreword to this book and had nothing but the highest praise for it’s scholarship and insight. Pope Benedict and John Paul II also are reportedly fans of the book.

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