Did Mary die?


#1

Does the Catholic church teach that Mary died and her body was taken to heaven or that she was taken to heaven before she died?


#2

Though no dates are given…the Church teaches thru Apostolic Tradition, that the Holy Virgin died and THEN was taken up to Heaven, Body and Soul.

Many Saints, in their Mystical writings have also seen it happen in this way. Her death was seen as very holy, and simply that the Earth could no longer contain her immense Love for wishing to be in Heaven.


#3

The Bible itself does not categorically say how and when Mary died, and if Mary actually did die. She was last mentioned in Acts 1 and afterwards disappears from scripture. Official teaching states that Mary was taken up to heaven, body and soul, a doctrine known as the Assumption, proclaimed by Pope Pius XII in 1950. The question as to whether Mary **actually experienced death ** prior to being assumed to heaven has been debated by theologians for years since the dogma only states that:
**
“having completed the course of her earthly life, [the Virgin Mary] was assumed body and soul into heaven,” . **

The dogma doesn’t categorically say she actually died, it only states that she was assumed to heaven upon completion of her earthly life.

On the other hand, your other point as to whether Mary died **after ** being assumed to heaven is **not ** Church teaching, for the simple reason that if you are already in the glory of Heaven, how can you still die.

Often, some people have confused this dogma with the teaching on the Ascension, where Christ, **through His own power ** returned to heaven, glorified body and soul, whereas in the Assumption, Mary was taken to heaven not through her own power, but by the power of God.

Gerry :slight_smile:


#4

The church is actually silent on whether Mary didn’t die and was assumed into heaven or if she was assumed at the moment of her death.


#5

It appears to me that if the Bible says her earthly life was completed that in itself implies that she died since this is the completion of a persons time on earth. Maybe? :confused:


#6

it depends on which theologan you read as to weather or not she died first… most are on the record that they think she died…

i for one don’t think your gonna get out of this world alive… :thumbsup:


#7

Ok it seems that the Catholic church does teach that Mary died and than her body and soul were taken up to heaven as most of the replies showed. But how can this be? This would make Mary a sinner because Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned (Romans 5:12).

How can the Catholic church say that Mary didn’t sin and at the same time say that she died when it is known that death is the penalty we pay for sin.

About Mary being assumed body and soul into heaven… how do we know that? i.e: proof.


#8

Christ died yet was without sin.


#9

Christ died. You and I insist that He wasn’t a sinner. So this at least shows that death is possible for those who are not sinners. So if Christ died yet was not a sinner, then if Mary dies, then it’s not necessarily conclusive that she was a sinner.

And what kind of proof do you seek? In the case of Christ’s ascension, one proof might be an empty tomb. We have the same case for Mary.

But even more fundamentally, you believe that Christ ascended into Heaven on the testimony of divine revelation, which for you is confined to the Scriptures alone. As you know, for Catholics, divine revelation isn’t limited to Scripture.


#10

[quote=homer]Ok it seems that the Catholic church does teach that Mary died and than her body and soul were taken up to heaven as most of the replies showed. But how can this be? This would make Mary a sinner because Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned (Romans 5:12).

How can the Catholic church say that Mary didn’t sin and at the same time say that she died when it is known that death is the penalty we pay for sin.

About Mary being assumed body and soul into heaven… how do we know that? i.e: proof.
[/quote]

First, the Church remains silent on whether Mary has died. Do not confuse the opinions of Catholic theologians with the official teaching of the Church.

Second, the Catholic understanding of man’s original state is that man possessed gifts over and above what was strictly his by nature.

Adam and Eve originally received the preternatural gifts of immortality, impassibility, freedom from concupiscence, ignorance, and sin, and lordship over the earth. If Adam had not sinned, we all would have inherited these preternatural gifts, together with the supernatural gift of sanctifying grace. The souls in heaven will recover these gifts at the end of time.

To these gifts, man has no claim by right of nature. Mary, although sinless, had no claim to a gift over and above the nature given to her by God. Also, we know that Jesus, in His humanity, was subject to suffering and death, so he did not possess the preternatural gifts of impassibility and and immortality. As a result, we may assume that it would be unfitting for His mother to possess those gifts. Therefore, it is not inconsistent with the Catholic understanding of the cause of death to say that a person, preserved free from all stain of sin, could die, because freedom from death is a gift over and above the nature to which even a sinless person can claim a right.

Third, you have a thread on this board on the Assumption in which the evidence for the teaching is discussed. Go look at your own thread, please.

Justin


#11

From an Eastern Catholic POV, we say that she fell asleep. We celebrate her Dormition on 15 August, along with her Assumption. Many parishes (in the Byzantine Catholic Church, and the Rusyn Slovaks Greek Catholic Churches in the Old Country as well, i dont know about other Byzantine Chruches, or Oriental Churches) have a burial shroud for her (like we have for Jesus on Great and Holy Friday), and the shroud is taken in a funeral procession from the center of the Temple to the Altar, signifying her Assumption. While the shroud is in the nave, there is a special service pattern after Matins for Great and Holy Saturday, and is called the Lamentations of the Theotokos (Godbearer).

Tradition tells us that when it came time for her repose, she called the Apostles to herself. All came (save for Thomas, by Divine dispensation), most on a cloud, since they surviving Apostles were elswhere and far flung. After she fell asleep, they carried her into her tomb (either in Ephesus or Jerusalem, and in this point alone there is discrepensy in written testaments, owing probably to scribal error at some point). On the third day, the Apostles had a vision of her assumption, Thomas was borne to the place where the Apostles were, and asked to have the tomb opened, so he could venerate her. They found the tomb empty, save for her cinture (which Thomas kept for a while, and ended up in Constantinople by the Fifth Century) and the fragrance of roses. That is the gist of the story, though i may be a little hazy on a couple details.

In Christ,
Adam


#12

Confused here, as usual.

If Mary died a natural death, wouldn’t she have been buried? And of all people connected by blood to Jesus, wouldn’t her burial place have been of sacred memory to all who knew her, especially the apostles? But her burial place, so far as I know, is never mentioned; nor was it jealously guarded in honor of her for future generations.

So was she assumed immediately into heaven upon her death?

If that is so, why is the Assumption never mentioned by Luke or anyone else who lived in Mary’s time?


#13

[quote=Carl]Confused here, as usual.

If Mary died a natural death, wouldn’t she have been buried? And of all people connected by blood to Jesus, wouldn’t her burial place have been of sacred memory to all who knew her, especially the apostles? But her burial place, so far as I know, is never mentioned; nor was it jealously guarded in honor of her for future generations.

So was she assumed immediately into heaven upon her death?

If that is so, why is the Assumption never mentioned by Luke or anyone else who lived in Mary’s time?
[/quote]

Is it possible that Our Lady was still alive at the time of the completion of the Gospels?


#14

In my humble opinion, I believe our Blessed Mother HAD to die on earth, then our Lord took Her home. My reason?..To show us all the power in/faith in the resurection (sp). Mary is a created being, just like the rest of us, I believed that our Lord used His Mother as an example of what all Christians are to believe, ie: that we will all be resurected(spell check broken lol) and that our earthly bodies will be reunited with our spirits when He comes again in glory.

I rambled a bit, but I hope I made a little sense. I speak much better than I write :stuck_out_tongue:


#15

Ok it seems that the Catholic church does teach that Mary died and than her body and soul were taken up to heaven as most of the replies showed. But how can this be? This would make Mary a sinner because Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned (Romans 5:12).

How can the Catholic church say that Mary didn’t sin and at the same time say that she died when it is known that death is the penalty we pay for sin.

About Mary being assumed body and soul into heaven… how do we know that? i.e: proof.

You totally misunderstood scripture in this subject. For if you believe that Jesus had no sin, how come He died? If you believe this to be true based on your quote from scripture, it will show that even when Jesus was crucified, He could not die from crucifixion because He has no sin.

Your argument doesn’t make any sense…

Pio


#16

About Mary being assumed body and soul into heaven… how do we know that? i.e: proof.

Homer,

Do you believe that the apostles are in heaven right now as well as the other believers in Christ??? If you then believe them to be there, where would Mary be right now?

Pio


#17

Hey everyone, let’s stop posting now and give homer a chance to reply. He is great at his hit and run tactics but lets see if he can come back and actually reply to his question that has been answered. Of course, reply if you feel the need. I am not a moderator, but I sure would like to see homer answer more than a few times on threads he starts.:slight_smile:

God Bless
Maria


#18

Supposing for the sake of argument that we interpret the Scripture verse that “all die because of sin” in a woodenly, literal sense as proposed.

In this scenario, a sinless Mary’s destiny could have been one of two: either she would live forever here on earth, or her life would end and she would go to heaven to be with the Lord.

There would be no advantage for her to live forever here on earth, especially since, as a Christian, her real home is in heaven. A saint and a powerful intercessor such as Mary would do infinitely much more good in heaven than thousands of years on earth (I know homer doesn’t believe in the intercession of saints in heaven, but thats a subject for a different thread.)

The point is, even if Mary did not die as a result of sin, it only makes sense that God, out of his great love for all his children, would arrange to have Mary, after her work on earth was through, join her Son in heaven. Whether she actually had to experience death or not so this could be accomplished is almost irrelevant.


#19

Hey Homer,

Several posters are giving you the benefit of the doubt. Don’t blow it again with hit and run posting.

Justin


#20

Mary was without sin. She was FULL of grace, as Gabriel makes so very clear (Luke 1:28).

And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.(Luke 1:28 DRV)


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