Did Mohammed Really Believe The Bible Was Corrupt?


#1

It seems certain Quranic verses confirm the authenticity of the Torah and Gospel during Mohammed’s time:

“So if you are in doubt, [O Muhammad], about that which We have revealed to you, then ask those who have been reading the Scripture before you. The truth has certainly come to you from your Lord, so never be among the doubters.” – Sura 10:94

God does not warn Mohammed to exercise caution when asking the people who have read the scripture because their scripture is partly corrupt. It is highly dangerous to consult people with a corrupt scripture in dealing with divine truth.

“And let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the defiantly disobedient.” – Sura 5:47

How could God charge the people of the Gospel to judge if their Gospel is corrupt?

“But when the truth came to them from Us, they said, "Why was he not given like that which was given to Moses?" Did they not disbelieve in that which was given to Moses before? They said, "[They are but] two works of magic supporting each other, and indeed we are, in both, disbelievers. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the defiantly disobedient. Say, Then bring a scripture from Allah which is more guiding than either of them that I may follow it, if you should be truthful." – Sura 28:48-49

Mohammed challenges disbelievers to bring a scripture more guiding than the Quran and the Torah, why would Mohammed propose this challenge if the Torah was corrupt?

I am curious to know the Islamic position on this. I invite Muslims to please answer these questions.


#2

Assalaamu 'aleikum!

It is best understood that the Islamic world does not accept the current Bible as you would know it within the Catholic Church and in the Jewish world as the one which was given to the prophets Musa (Moses), 'Isa (Jesus), Ibrahim (Abraham) and others. The generally accepted belief is that the original gospels were subject to editing, additions and substractions from their original texts, rendering them corrupt.

Rather, the references to Tawrah and Injil (Tawrah and Gospels) are references to this original revelation, something which the teachings of the various prophets in the Qur'an itself aim to restore as the correct form of worship.

Take 'Isa (Jesus). Islam accepts Jesus as a prophet, and indeed Isa is highly important in Islam. Muslims love Jesus/'Isa as much as Christians. However the Islamic view is that the view of Jesus as Son of Allah is a blasphemy and so the Biblical teachings on this are seen to be a later addition.

The Jesus of the Qur'an was a man, born of a mortal mother (Maryam), who was subject to the will of Allah as much as any other man. He prayed to and asked Allah for guidance. He was not a god in his own right.

Any further questions, I will happily answer.

EDIT: i should add that the Qur'an, being the final revelation, is intended by Allah to 'correct' these errors in the earlier books, and being perfectly preserved, is a perfect book. And so the 'benchmark' for any Islamic study of the BIble is the Qur'an.


#3

Thanks for responding. However your answer does not make much sense, the verses I have pointed out do not imply reference to the original scriptures...

How could God ask Mohammed if he had doubts to consult those that have been reading scripture if they have the corrupt scripture?
How could God charge the people of the Gospel to judge if their Gospel is corrupt?
Mohammed challenges disbelievers to bring a scripture more guiding than the Quran and the Torah, why would Mohammed propose this challenge if the Torah was corrupt?

God bless,


#4

[quote="Kouyate42, post:2, topic:277184"]
Assalaamu 'aleikum!

The Jesus of the Qur'an was a man, born of a mortal mother (Maryam), who was subject to the will of Allah as much as any other man. He prayed to and asked Allah for guidance. He was not a god in his own right.

EDIT: i should add that the Qur'an, being the final revelation, is intended by Allah to 'correct' these errors in the earlier books, and being perfectly preserved, is a perfect book. And so the 'benchmark' for any Islamic study of the BIble is the Qur'an.

[/quote]

For some reason I cannot fathom you're on a forum called Catholic Answers. Hopefully some of the truths on here will penetrate before you are completely lost, as I see you classify yourself only as a student. There's still time to see the light.


#5

[quote="Kouyate42, post:2, topic:277184"]

The generally accepted belief is that the original gospels were subject to editing, additions and substractions from their original texts, rendering them corrupt.

Rather, the references to Tawrah and Injil (Tawrah and Gospels) are references to this original revelation, something which the teachings of the various prophets in the Qur'an itself aim to restore as the correct form of worship.

[/quote]

Hi Kouyate,

But how soon did these "corruptions" come about? Three hundred years after Christ? Two hundred? One hundred? Fifty?

I ask because there isn't any historical evidence from surviving fragments of the Old and New Testament that it was corrupted. The earliest fragments we have of the Gospels match what we have translated today. Sure, there's some differences between manuscripts, but they're small - probably more linguistic differences than theological differences.


#6

People often pass comment that the Qur’an is ‘better written’ than the bible. This implies to me that the bible is a ‘real-time’ account of the events of that time recorded by simple, everyday people (such as fishermen etc.). The ‘well written’ nature of the Qur’an would appear to indicate much more editing than the bible ever had.

God bless


#7

[quote="Kouyate42, post:143, topic:276616"]
This is pointless. The Qur'an is clear that some can be told the Qur'an and its truth, but their ears are closed shut and their hearts shut off.

[/quote]

[quote="Kouyate42, post:2, topic:277184"]
Assalaamu 'aleikum!

It is best understood that the Islamic world does not accept the current Bible as you would know it within the Catholic Church and in the Jewish world as the one which was given to the prophets Musa (Moses), 'Isa (Jesus), Ibrahim (Abraham) and others. The generally accepted belief is that the original gospels were subject to editing, additions and substractions from their original texts, rendering them corrupt.

...

[/quote]

Any idea that relies on error is in itself in error. As you correctly state, Mohammed relies on the Jewish and Christian scriptures for validation of his prophethood, but condemns those same scriptures as "corrupt". biblestudying.net/islam1.html [This analysis is somewhat long because of the many references which can be skipped over to get the thesis, and verified later on.]

Conclusions about Islam

So, we conclude from this intensive study that we must reject Islam's claims as well. There are two main reasons for this rejection. First, though Islam has historically identifiable origins, these origins do not provide any reason for concluding that Mohammed's teachings are an accurate view of God, the universe, and mankind. Instead, the circumstances surrounding the origin and rise of Islam can clearly be understood simply as a product of normal human affairs and ambitions.
...
Second, the evidence that Islam does offer to substantiate the accuracy of its claims has shown to be invalid. Islam contends that it is the final successor to the Judeo-Christian tradition, which it claims expected Islam and which Islam also claims to fulfill and confirm. However, as we have shown above neither Judaism nor Christianity allows for the teachings of Mohammed. And additionally, Islam undermines the fundamental claims made by both of its supposed predecessors.
...
Islam is also invalidated by its claims to come from and uphold the Judeo-Christian tradition, which Islam claims is from God. Since the Judeo-Christian tradition in no way permits Islamic teaching, then Islam must be in error either in its own teaching, which deviates from that of Judaism and Christianity, or Islam must be in error in its assertion that the Judeo-Christian tradition is of God.

Despite the fact that Islam is an Evidentiary religion, an examination of that evidence has revealed that it does not substantiate the claims of Islam. But instead, the evidence offered actually contradicts Islam. So, for both of the reasons summarized in the preceding paragraphs, we reject the claims of Islam ...


#8

[quote="Stumblesalot, post:6, topic:277184"]
People often pass comment that the Qur’an is ‘better written’ than the bible. This implies to me that the bible is a ‘real-time’ account of the events of that time recorded by simple, everyday people (such as fishermen etc.). The ‘well written’ nature of the Qur’an would appear to indicate much more editing than the bible ever had.

God bless

[/quote]

I would assume the "better written" is a reflection that the Quran was an oral document prior to becoming a written document. Like the Illiad, it loses the "better written" when translated.


#9

Take 'Isa (Jesus). Islam accepts Jesus as a prophet, and indeed Isa is highly important in Islam. Muslims love Jesus/'Isa as much as Christians. However the Islamic view is that the view of Jesus as Son of Allah is a blasphemy and so the Biblical teachings on this are seen to be a later addition.
http://www.dubaa.info/dell.gif


#10

[quote="goodnana, post:9, topic:277184"]
Take 'Isa (Jesus). Islam accepts Jesus as a prophet, and indeed Isa is highly important in Islam. Muslims love Jesus/'Isa as much as Christians. However the Islamic view is that the view of Jesus as Son of Allah is a blasphemy and so the Biblical teachings on this are seen to be a later addition.
http://www.dubaa.info/dell.gif

[/quote]

Unfortunately, Muslim are shall I say, cautious in really looking at the facts, that Jesus being God has always been the teaching of the Church. I think It will shake their own foundational understanding and the fear of dealing with their question if they dare try to inquire their teachers.

MJ


#11

[quote="Kouyate42, post:2, topic:277184"]
Assalaamu 'aleikum!

It is best understood that the Islamic world does not accept the current Bible as you would know it within the Catholic Church and in the Jewish world as the one which was given to the prophets Musa (Moses), 'Isa (Jesus), Ibrahim (Abraham) and others. The generally accepted belief is that the original gospels were subject to editing, additions and substractions from their original texts, rendering them corrupt.

Rather, the references to Tawrah and Injil (Tawrah and Gospels) are references to this original revelation, something which the teachings of the various prophets in the Qur'an itself aim to restore as the correct form of worship.

Take 'Isa (Jesus). Islam accepts Jesus as a prophet, and indeed Isa is highly important in Islam. Muslims love Jesus/'Isa as much as Christians. However the Islamic view is that the view of Jesus as Son of Allah is a blasphemy and so the Biblical teachings on this are seen to be a later addition.

The Jesus of the Qur'an was a man, born of a mortal mother (Maryam), who was subject to the will of Allah as much as any other man. He prayed to and asked Allah for guidance. He was not a god in his own right.

Any further questions, I will happily answer.

EDIT: i should add that the Qur'an, being the final revelation, is intended by Allah to 'correct' these errors in the earlier books, and being perfectly preserved, is a perfect book. And so the 'benchmark' for any Islamic study of the BIble is the Qur'an.

[/quote]

If you make an argument that bible is edited, then you should provide proof for when it was edited ?, where ?, by whom?, at which year?,

Blind arguments without any supporting evidences are not valid.. Quran does not mentions that christians editted bible.. It is only teachings of muslim leaders that christians editted bible..

One thing is sure , the Quran which is presently available is written at the time of Caliph Utman. He wrote the Quran and destroyed other existing versions.. There is proof in the history that destruction of other versions of Quran..


#12

[quote="jerry_joseph, post:11, topic:277184"]
...
Blind arguments without any supporting evidences are not valid.. Quran does not mentions that christians editted bible.. It is only teachings of muslim leaders that christians editted bible.
...

[/quote]

The Jews and Christians of the time had to be given a reason to leave their old religion and join the new one.


#13

I signed up to NewAgeIslam.com....and it is like here...different Muslims speaking of different translations, additions added to justify conquest, define role of women, etc.

I like this site because many Muslims are reflecting on becoming more humane, treatment of women is seriously being debated....and there are writers whose lives are endangered. So I also the courage of some contributors to this site. Reading the follow up comments is just as interesting as the articles.


#14

Who really cares what Mohammed thought about the authenticity of Christian and Jewish Scriptures? I'm supposed to believe the testimony of some guy in the middle of Arabia, far from Jerusalem and 6 centuries removed from the events of the Gospels OVER the eye-witnesses of the events themselves? Why? Just because he said he saw an angel that no one else but him could see and that he made trips to heaven that no-one else but him could see and that that angel gave him the verses he recited to the Arabs? No thanks.

I'll take the word of St. Peter, St. John and the others any day, than the word of a guy who had absolutely zero knowledge or connection in history, time or geography to the events of the Gospels. :thumbsup:


#15

[quote="Marybeloved, post:14, topic:277184"]
Who really cares what Mohammed thought about the authenticity of Christian and Jewish Scriptures? I'm supposed to believe the testimony of some guy in the middle of Arabia, far from Jerusalem and 6 centuries removed from the events of the Gospels OVER the eye-witnesses of the events themselves? Why? Just because he said he saw an angel that no one else but him could see and that he made trips to heaven that no-one else but him could see and that that angel gave him the verses he recited to the Arabs? No thanks.

I'll take the word of St. Peter, St. John and the others any day, than the word of a guy who had absolutely zero knowledge or connection in history, time or geography to the events of the Gospels. :thumbsup:

[/quote]

Off the top of my head knowing what Mohammad thought of Jewish and Christian Scriptures would allow me to ask-

-are there other prophets within said scriptures that invalidated/called corrupt the teachings of prior prophets
-how did he determine the level of "corruption" in said scriptures
-are the "corrupted" portions the ones that would disprove him being a prophet/invalidate his "teachings"
-how does he justify his "teachings" as not being "corruptible"
-how does he explain God allowing His teachings to be so corrupted; allow for His prophets to fail in their God given mission
-are there errors in regards to what he thought said scriptures said and what they actually said
-did he "cherry pick" scriptures to validate his "teachings"


#16

[quote="Marybeloved, post:14, topic:277184"]
Who really cares what Mohammed thought about the authenticity of Christian and Jewish Scriptures? ...

[/quote]

Because the whole authenticity of Islam rests on the authenticity of Christianity and Judaism. This is not to say that because Christianity and Judaism are true that Islam is true.


#17

I would suggest all moslems or would be moslems read the Koran thoroughly and try and understand the meaning of each word. Then, go get a Catholic Bible and read it and understand each word and see what happens.


#18

[quote="Ancient1, post:4, topic:277184"]
For some reason I cannot fathom you're on a forum called Catholic Answers. Hopefully some of the truths on here will penetrate before you are completely lost, as I see you classify yourself only as a student. There's still time to see the light.

[/quote]

I totally agree with you. They have or are in the process of putting their souls in peril. I pray for the conversion of Islam.


#19

[quote="Augustine3, post:1, topic:277184"]
It seems certain Quranic verses confirm the authenticity of the Torah and Gospel during Mohammed’s time:

“So if you are in doubt, [O Muhammad], about that which We have revealed to you, then ask those who have been reading the Scripture before you. The truth has certainly come to you from your Lord, so never be among the doubters.” – Sura 10:94

God does not warn Mohammed to exercise caution when asking the people who have read the scripture because their scripture is partly corrupt. It is highly dangerous to consult people with a corrupt scripture in dealing with divine truth.

“And let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the defiantly disobedient.” – Sura 5:47

How could God charge the people of the Gospel to judge if their Gospel is corrupt?

“But when the truth came to them from Us, they said, "Why was he not given like that which was given to Moses?" Did they not disbelieve in that which was given to Moses before? They said, "[They are but] two works of magic supporting each other, and indeed we are, in both, disbelievers. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the defiantly disobedient. Say, Then bring a scripture from Allah which is more guiding than either of them that I may follow it, if you should be truthful." – Sura 28:48-49

Mohammed challenges disbelievers to bring a scripture more guiding than the Quran and the Torah, why would Mohammed propose this challenge if the Torah was corrupt?

I am curious to know the Islamic position on this. I invite Muslims to please answer these questions.

[/quote]

[quote="Augustine3, post:3, topic:277184"]
How could God ask Mohammed if he had doubts to consult those that have been reading scripture if they have the corrupt scripture?
How could God charge the people of the Gospel to judge if their Gospel is corrupt?
Mohammed challenges disbelievers to bring a scripture more guiding than the Quran and the Torah, why would Mohammed propose this challenge if the Torah was corrupt?

[/quote]

These questions are open to any other Muslim that’s willing to answer...


#20

[quote="Augustine3, post:19, topic:277184"]
These questions are open to any other Muslim that’s willing to answer...

[/quote]

St. John of Damascus Critique of Islam
c. 645 or 676 – 4 December 749
orthodoxinfo.com/general/stjohn_islam.aspx


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