Did Padre Pio do novus ordo masses?

I believe he lived during that time. I like the Latin Mass, but I try to be moderate about it. I’m sure he would have done it by the rubrics in the right spirit of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass (no anecdotes at the wrong places of the Mass or with liturgical experimentation) if he did. What about Fr. Solanus Casey?.

I believe he celebrated the Mass according to the 1965 Missal and also “facing the people”, however the altar cards and six large candlesticks and a crucifix were still on the altar so it was hard to see him.

Ken

[quote=foolishmortal]I believe he lived during that time. I like the Latin Mass, but I try to be moderate about it. I’m sure he would have done it by the rubrics in the right spirit of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass (no anecdotes at the wrong places of the Mass or with liturgical experimentation) if he did. What about Fr. Solanus Casey?.
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St Padre Pio died in 1968. The Mass was promulgated in 1969, I believe. There was the interm Mass that was experimental in nature but it was not what became the Mass.

Also, when the “new” Mass was promulgated, priests over a certain age, I believe it was around 65 or so, were not required to change. That is they were allowed to continue with the Mass that they knew best. This was done as it would be very hard for them to change.

St Padre Pio died at the age of 81, so he would have been exempt anyways.

[quote=ByzCath]St Padre Pio died in 1968. The Mass was promulgated in 1969, I believe. There was the interm Mass that was experimental in nature but it was not what became the Mass.

Also, when the “new” Mass was promulgated, priests over a certain age, I believe it was around 65 or so, were not required to change. That is they were allowed to continue with the Mass that they knew best. This was done as it would be very hard for them to change.

St Padre Pio died at the age of 81, so he would have been exempt anyways.
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He did celebrate the missal of 1965, I have seen pictures of him celebrating at an altar facing the people. However, he had an crucifix right in front of him on the middle of the altar, just in front of the corporal. Something that you don’t see too much today.

[quote=RedDeathsMask]He did celebrate the missal of 1965, I have seen pictures of him celebrating at an altar facing the people. However, he had an crucifix right in front of him on the middle of the altar, just in front of the corporal. Something that you don’t see too much today.
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I have heard two versions of this one that he did and one that he did not. Apparently, he was asked to celebrate a Mass using the interim formula and he requested not to. Due to his advanced years he was exempt from any requirement to do so… The picture of him facing the people was apparently taken at one of the churches in which the altar is situated so that people are on several sides. there are several such churches in Italy. He was facing east in that particular Mass… I will try to find the documentation for this but if anyone else has it could you please put it up?

http://www.padrepio.com/massrose.gif
http://www.freewebz.com/voicemag/piogrey.jpg

Saint Pio celebrating the Mass versus populum.

[quote=AltarMan]http://www.padrepio.com/massrose.gif
http://www.freewebz.com/voicemag/piogrey.jpg

Saint Pio celebrating the Mass versus populum.
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I think that this picture was probably taken from such an angle that it just LOOKS like he was facing the people. Or maybe the people were indeed sitting on several sides of the altar.

From what I have read about Saint Pio, he never celebrated the Mass facing the people.

[quote=GoLatin]I think that this picture was probably taken from such an angle that it just LOOKS like he was facing the people. Or maybe the people were indeed sitting on several sides of the altar.

From what I have read about Saint Pio,**he never celebrated the Mass facing the people. **
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Not true. But if you can cite an authoritive source that refutes actual photographs (and no, it’s not simply a matter of angles) I would be most interested.

[quote=RedDeathsMask]He did celebrate the missal of 1965, I have seen pictures of him celebrating at an altar facing the people. However, he had an crucifix right in front of him on the middle of the altar, just in front of the corporal. Something that you don’t see too much today.
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I am not doubting you but are you sure?

St Padre Pio was in a cloistered monastery. Some of those monasteries are laid out with the closier on one side of the altar and the public side on the other. So when a priest is saying a Mass for the community, the community is on one side and the public on the other. To say the Mass faceing the community then his back would have been to the public. If he is facing the public then his back is to the community.

I have seen pictures of a Mass according to the 1965 Missal and the priest was facing the same way as the people.

Was the facing an absoulte requirement or was it optional as it is today?

[quote=AltarMan]Not true. But if you can cite an authoritive source that refutes actual photographs (and no, it’s not simply a matter of angles) I would be most interested.
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But your photograph does not prove what you are saying it does. All it proves is that the person takeing the picture was on the opposite side of the altar from St Padre Pio.

I do not see any other people in the picture so it does not prove he was facing them.

I think you need to cite an authoritive source as your actual photograph is inconclusive.

All the pictures I have seen of St Padre Pio celebrating the Mass that includes the lay people show him facing the same way as they are,

[quote=ByzCath]But your photograph does not prove what you are saying it does. All it proves is that the person takeing the picture was on the opposite side of the altar from St Padre Pio.

I do not see any other people in the picture so it does not prove he was facing them.

I think you need to cite an authoritive source as your actual photograph is inconclusive.

All the pictures I have seen of St Padre Pio celebrating the Mass that includes the lay people show him facing the same way as they are,
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Very interesting. Padre Pio was one of the key Church figures I chose to teach my second grade class about this year. I used a color version of this picture to talk to them about him. I didn’t think about it, but it may have been a bit misleading.

What do you make of this one? It look like a wedding. padrepiodevotions.org/displayphotos.asp?pn=3#
Second row, second column.

Any speculations?

VC

Maybe the newly-married couple were allowed to receive Holy Communion inside the sanctuary?

That makes sense. But wouldn’t that mean that the rest of the people were out there? And so wouldn’t St. Pio be facing them, given the way the altar is set up in that photo?

Whadda ya think?
VC

[quote=ByzCath]But your photograph does not prove what you are saying it does. All it proves is that the person takeing the picture was on the opposite side of the altar from St Padre Pio.

I do not see any other people in the picture so it does not prove he was facing them.

I think you need to cite an authoritive source as your actual photograph is inconclusive.

All the pictures I have seen of St Padre Pio celebrating the Mass that includes the lay people show him facing the same way as they are,
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It’s quite clear he’s* versus populum*. I’m sure there are a lot more photos out there that underscore this fact. You are more than free to choose from them.

[quote=Verbum Caro]What do you make of this one? It look like a wedding. padrepiodevotions.org/displayphotos.asp?pn=3#
Second row, second column.

Any speculations?

VC
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This** is **another good one…

To suggest Saint Pio is not versus populum is to suggest someone is taking this picture though a peep-hole in the reredos, and that the sanctuary is elevated about 15’ to ensure none of the congregation ends-up in photos like this one…

Why does it matter? If, in fact, it does…

[quote=AltarMan]It’s quite clear he’s* versus populum*. I’m sure there are a lot more photos out there that underscore this fact. You are more than free to choose from them.
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You can think as you wish but until you show a picture that includes the lay people in it your pictures are inconclusive, there just is not enought information in then to make a 100% conclusion.

Then we must add in the fact that a picture is just a shot of a very small moment in time. Just becuase St Padre Pio is facing the people at the moment the picture was taken does not mean he facing that way for the whole Mass.

[quote=AltarMan]http://www.padrepiodevotions.org/images/photo029.jpg
This** is **another good one…

To suggest Saint Pio is not versus populum is to suggest someone is taking this picture though a peep-hole in the reredos, and that the sanctuary is elevated about 15’ to ensure none of the congregation ends-up in photos like this one…
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Actually this proves nothing as it is obviously at the point of the Mass for the distribution of the Eucharist. I believe that Communion has always been given with the priest facing the people.

But again, it proves nothing, and anyways, Pentecost said it best.

[quote=Pentecost2005]Why does it matter? If, in fact, it does…
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It really doesn’t matter one bit becasue no matter what was done St Pio did it according to the rite he was celebrating.

The picture is versus populum, and not some pinhole in the reredos shot, because:

  1. In the wedding picture, one can see the gradine of the old high altar in the background, with the candles, flower vases, and maybe even a tabernacle on it. It is not in some modern church in the round.

  2. The crucifix was facing the celebrant, as was the practice from 1965-1970, but one sees no altar cards because they were flat on the altar, as was also the practice of the period. Had this been an old high altar, the altar cards would have been in the way of the camera angle (not the last gospel card, which was suppressed in March, 1965). The other two cards remained in use through late 1967, when the Canon of the Mass was rendered in English and recited audibly.

  3. In the B&W photo, the flowers are clearly in front of the altar, at a lower level than the mensa, which could never happen at an altar attached to the wall. There the flowers would be on the gradine, at least at the same height as the mensa, if not higher;.

I think it matters because all Catholics who are neo-con or traditionalist, I believe, honors St. Pio. He could read souls, he had the stigmata and had the graces to do other amazing things because he had the humility of obedience and of other forms of humility to utilize them as a willing tool of the Lord’s Will. If facing the people were something corrupt in itself or could lead people away from God, he would never have done that. Nevertheless, facing the reredo with a crucifix and tabernacle and leading us towards those images of Christ is, I feel, a better thing for our souls.
My question came from not seeing the people but wondering how we saw his face upfront as if there was a hole in the reredo.

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