Did something prevail against the Catholic Church


#1

As most of us know, it says in the bible that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church. Well while in my history class, we were reading about the schism of the Eastern Orthodox, and I was wondering, couldn’t you say that something is prevailing/or has prevailed against the church, which would be Protestantism, Eastern Orthodox?


#2

i’d say the question falls on what is meant by ‘prevailing against’.

i’d also say that the answer to your question is ‘no’, because if it were ‘yes’, then what Jesus said is not true, which is not possible.

what do YOU mean by ‘prevailing against’?


#3

I would say no. The church is where Peter is. The Eastern Orthodox and the protestants left the side of Peter. They left the church. They have not prevailed, they have just removed themselves from communion with Peter.

In the end of the first century of Christianity Ignatius wrote many things, some of what he wrote was about heretics and schismatics. Here is a little something from him about schismatics.

**CHAP. III.–AVOID SCHISMATICS.
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Keep yourselves from those evil plants which Jesus Christ does not tend, because they are not the planting of the Father. Not that I have found any division among you, but exceeding purity. For as many as are of God and of Jesus Christ are also with the bishop. And as many as shall, in the exercise of repentance, return into the unity of the Church, these, too, shall belong to God, that they may live according to Jesus Christ. Do not err, my brethren. If any man follows him that makes a schism in the Church, he shall not inherit the kingdom of God. If any one walks according to a strange(5) opinion, he agrees not with the passion [of Christ.].
Keep yourselves, then, from those evil planes which Jesus Christ does not tend, bat that wild beast, the destroyer of men, because they are not the planting of the Father, but the seed of the wicked one. Not that I have found any division among you do I write these things; but I arm you beforehand, as the children of God. For as many as are of Christ are also with the bishop; but as many as fall away from him, and embrace communion with the accursed, these shall be cut off along with them. For they are not Christ’s husbandry, but the seed of the enemy, from whom may you ever be delivered by the prayers of the shepherd, that most faithful and gentle shepherd who presides over you. I therefore exhort you in the Lord to receive with all tenderness those that repent and return to the unity of the Church, that through your kindness and forbearance they may recover(4) themselves out of the snare of the devil, and becoming worthy of Jesus Christ, may obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of Christ. Brethren, be not deceived. If any man follows him that separates from the truth, he shall not inherit the kingdom of God; and if any man does not stand aloof from the preacher of falsehood, he shall be condemned to hell. For it is obligatory neither to separate from the godly, nor to associate with the ungodly. If any one walks according to a strange(5) opinion, he is not of Christ, nor a partaker of His passion; but is a fox,(6) a destroyer of the vineyard of Christ. Have no fellowship(7) with such a man, lest ye perish along with him, even should he be thy father, thy son, thy brother, or a member of thy family. For says [the Scripture], “Thine eye shall not spare him.”(8) You ought therefore to “hate those that hate God, and to waste away [with grief] on account of His enemies.”(9) I do not mean that you should beat them or persecute them, as do the Gentiles “that know not the Lord and God;”(10) but that you should regard them as your enemies, and separate yourselves from them, while yet you admonish them, and exhort them to repentance, if it may be they will hear, if it may be they will submit themselves. For our God is a lover of mankind, and “will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth.”(11) Wherefore “He makes His sun to rise upon the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust;”(12) of whose kindness the Lord, wishing us also to be imitators, says, “Be ye perfect, even as also your Father that is in heaven is perfect.”(13)
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Just because there were schismatics and heretics in the first century, does not mean that they prevailed against the church. They just removed themselves from the church.


#4

[quote=RomanRyan1088]As most of us know, it says in the bible that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church. Well while in my history class, we were reading about the schism of the Eastern Orthodox, and I was wondering, couldn’t you say that something is prevailing/or has prevailed against the church, which would be Protestantism, Eastern Orthodox?
[/quote]

One definition of the word “prevail” is to “triumph.” A schism is a breaking away, a split from the Church. The Church itself, however, is the one that prevails, it still stands, like the Rock that it is, as Jesus calls it.


#5

just for clarification, it is stated in the Bible, but there are alot of things ‘stated in the Bible’ that aren’t necessarily true. (for instance, it ‘says in the Bible’: ‘you will not surely die. you will become like God, knowing good and evil’ this is not true. the enemy said it.)

this statement (gates of hell not prevailing) was made by Jesus about the church He Himself was building.


#6

The powers of hell have not, and will not prevail against the Church. And as we hear at every Mass, Jesus prayed to the Father that all should be one. So we shall before the end. We shall all be united in one faith , under one shepherd.

Yours in Jesus, Mary & Joseph

John


#7

[quote=RomanRyan1088]As most of us know, it says in the bible that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church. Well while in my history class, we were reading about the schism of the Eastern Orthodox, and I was wondering, couldn’t you say that something is prevailing/or has prevailed against the church, which would be Protestantism, Eastern Orthodox?
[/quote]

Schism is not the same as to “prevail against”. If this were a battle, a schismatic can be compared to a soldier who deserts, or runs away and says “No More!”, while one who is “prevailing” is an enemy soldier who is attacking and succeeding.

Gerry :slight_smile:


#8

The gates of hell nor the minds of men have not prevailed against Holy Mother Church.

Don’t blame Holy Mother Church for the failings of some ill-guided men. The Church that Jesus Himself started and promised to be with 'till the end has remained the one Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church!

Some study will reveal that the Church today is the same Church it was 2000 years ago. If some dead wood or dead branches broke off from the Church then how can you say that Satan and hell has prevailed (changed) the Catholic Church? Be at ease, the Church is the same today as it was before.


#9

[quote=Exporter]Some study will reveal that the Church today is the same Church it was 2000 years ago. If some dead wood or dead branches broke off from the Church then how can you say that Satan and hell has prevailed (changed) the Catholic Church? Be at ease, the Church is the same today as it was before.
[/quote]

Says Jesus, (John 15: 5-9) “I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever remains in me and I in him will bear much fruit, because without me you can do nothing. Anyone who does not remain in me will be thrown out like a branch and wither; people will gather them and throw them into a fire and they will be burned.If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you. By this is my Father glorified, that you bear much fruit and become my disciples. As the Father loves me, so I also love you. Remain in my love.”


#10

[quote=John Russell Jr]The powers of hell have not, and will not prevail against the Church. And as we hear at every Mass, Jesus prayed to the Father that all should be one. So we shall before the end. We shall all be united in one faith , under one shepherd.

Yours in Jesus, Mary & Joseph

John
[/quote]

I don’t think the verse in question has anything at all to do with anything prevailing against the church. The verse speaks of the “gates of Hell” - which, being gates, even if metaphoric gates, do not move, have no will but are defences or entrances.

When the verse speaks of the gates of Hell not prevailing against the church it seems more to be talking about the church, standing in the power/authority of God, against the gates of Hell.

What this means exactly I don’t know. Exactly how the attacking church beats down the gates of Hell is a subject for another time. But it doesn’t picture the church battening down the hatches and closing down the defences while some gates attack it constantly and unsuccessfully.

Going by the definitions found through Google, the gates of Hell, and hell itself, and the powers of hell will not “be larger in number, quantity, power, status or importance” than the Church, they will not “continue to exist” against the church ultimately, they will not “prove superior” to the church, they will not “use persuasion successfully” on the church - changing its doctrines or faith. And the doctrines of hell will not “be valid, applicable, or true” when faced with the truths of the Church.

Must shut up now - or it will end up a sermon stretching to the length that I used to have to write them several years ago.

Blessings

Asteroid

  • Of course, I could be completely and utterly wrong about all of the above.

#11

[quote=RomanRyan1088]As most of us know, it says in the bible that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church. Well while in my history class, we were reading about the schism of the Eastern Orthodox, and I was wondering, couldn’t you say that something is prevailing/or has prevailed against the church, which would be Protestantism, Eastern Orthodox?
[/quote]

The fact that the truths of the Faith have been preserved intact for over 2,000 years, in spite of every device of the enemy is the ultimate proof that the gates of hell have not prevailed against her so far. It’s imporatnt to realize thatr this is a promise of Jesus & that He would not lie…hence He promised to preserve the church that He founded on Kepha.


#12

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