Did the early church believe in the real presence?


#1

Thanks!


#2

Yes


#3

Of course!!! It is evident in ALL the writings of the early Fathers.

:shrug::shrug::shrug:
Is there more to this question?


#4

The doctrine of the Real Presence asserts that in the Holy Eucharist, Jesus is literally and wholly present—body and blood, soul and divinity—under the appearances of bread and wine. Evangelicals and Fundamentalists frequently attack this doctrine as "unbiblical," but the Bible is forthright in declaring it (cf. 1 Cor. 10:16–17, 11:23–29; and, most forcefully, John 6:32–71).
The early Church Fathers interpreted these passages literally. In summarizing the early Fathers’ teachings on Christ’s Real Presence, renowned Protestant historian of the early Church J. N. D. Kelly, writes: "Eucharistic teaching, it should be understood at the outset, was in general unquestioningly realist, i.e., the consecrated bread and wine were taken to be, and were treated and designated as, the Savior’s body and blood" (Early Christian Doctrines, 440).
From the Church’s early days, the Fathers referred to Christ’s presence in the Eucharist. Kelly writes: "Ignatius roundly declares that . . . [t]he bread is the flesh of Jesus, the cup his blood. Clearly he intends this realism to be taken strictly, for he makes it the basis of his argument against the Docetists’ denial of the reality of Christ’s body. . . . Irenaeus teaches that the bread and wine are really the Lord’s body and blood. His witness is, indeed, all the more impressive because he produces it quite incidentally while refuting the Gnostic and Docetic rejection of the Lord’s real humanity" (ibid., 197–98).
"Hippolytus speaks of ‘the body and the blood’ through which the Church is saved, and Tertullian regularly describes the bread as ‘the Lord’s body.’ The converted pagan, he remarks, ‘feeds on the richness of the Lord’s body, that is, on the Eucharist.’ The realism of his theology comes to light in the argument, based on the intimate relation of body and soul, that just as in baptism the body is washed with water so that the soul may be cleansed, so in the Eucharist ‘the flesh feeds upon Christ’s body and blood so that the soul may be filled with God.’ Clearly his assumption is that the Savior’s body and blood are as real as the baptismal water. Cyprian’s attitude is similar. Lapsed Christians who claim communion without doing penance, he declares, ‘do violence to his body and blood, a sin more heinous against the Lord with their hands and mouths than when they denied him.’ Later he expatiates on the terrifying consequences of profaning the sacrament, and the stories he tells confirm that he took the Real Presence literally" (ibid., 211–12).

more: catholic.com/tracts/the-real-presence


#5

Thanks! But specifically what about transubstantitation?


#6

Jesus did in John 6. Actually in all 4 gospels as well as Hebrews


#7

[quote="MaeganFlinchum1, post:5, topic:311480"]
Thanks! But specifically what about transubstantitation?

[/quote]

SMOM's entire post specifically dealt with transubstantiation.....:shrug:


#8

[quote="MaeganFlinchum1, post:5, topic:311480"]
Thanks! But specifically what about transubstantitation?

[/quote]

That "word" that came to be used to describe what happens in the Eucharist came centuries later. Just as the word Trinity came into use well after the Apostolic age.

We can come up with new words even today -- to describe or explain what has been known and lived.


#9

A quote one can find on the the CA site proper

Justin Martyr

"We call this food Eucharist, and no one else is permitted to partake of it, except one who believes our teaching to be true and who has been washed in the washing which is for the remission of sins and for regeneration * and is thereby living as Christ enjoined. For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus" (First Apology 66 [A.D. 151]).*


#10

A Disciples of Christ pastor once told me he sure hopes the spirit of Jesus is really present in his church. They have an open communion service weekly. I hope some Protestants who do not believe in a physical bodily presence come forth to give their take.


#11

It depends on what you mean by “early” church?
I think there were some Christian groups in the early days–the first few centuries before the Christian canon–who did not believe in it. They are the ones who followed the scriptures that were not included in the canon centuries later.


#12

[quote="MaeganFlinchum1, post:1, topic:311480"]
Thanks!

[/quote]

Yes Maegan, you see it especially on the Gospel of St. John and the Epistles of St. Paul.
More information is here:

newadvent.org/cathen/05573a.htm

The term Trasubstantian was first used by Magister Roland early in the 12th century. He became Pope Alexander lll about 1150. :thumbsup:


#13

[quote="DaddyGirl, post:11, topic:311480"]
It depends on what you mean by "early" church?
I think there were some Christian groups in the early days--the first few centuries before the Christian canon--who did not believe in it. They are the ones who followed the scriptures that were not included in the canon centuries later.

[/quote]

Those who embraced yes heresies. Like matter is evil etc. Yes there were those then. They were not the Early Church.


#14

you see i have always heard that some in the early church believed in a spiritual presence. Also did some leader of the early church allow members in some circumstances to believe in a symbolic presence? Thanks for all the replies. As someone who is going to be baptized come march as a Catholic. These answers mean a lot.


#15

[quote="MaeganFlinchum1, post:14, topic:311480"]
you see i have always heard that some in the early church believed in a spiritual presence. Also did some leader of the early church allow members in some circumstances to believe in a symbolic presence? Thanks for all the replies. As someone who is going to be baptized come march as a Catholic. These answers mean a lot.

[/quote]

The Eucharist was the Eucharist -- the Body and Blood of Christ -- not simply a symbol. Such was the Faith of the Early Church. Any in those days who did not accept the Eucharist as being such where those who where not accepting what had been handed on in the Church.

catholic.com/quickquestions/are-we-really-eating-jesus-in-the-eucharist-or-is-it-only-symbolic


#16

[quote="CMatt25, post:10, topic:311480"]
A Disciples of Christ pastor once told me he sure hopes the spirit of Jesus is really present in his church. They have an open communion service weekly. I hope some Protestants who do not believe in a physical bodily presence come forth to give their take.

[/quote]

Forgive me. I mistakenly thought this thread was on the non Catholic subforum. I don't expect many Protestants frequent Catholic Liturgy and Sacraments.


#17

A couple of times I have heard these things from uninformed protestants. They are not true and with a little research and reading you can debunk them quite easily.

The good thing about being Catholic is that we dont have to get our info from “some dude” said some other dude in some source that at some time this happened. That is something you will absolutely love about being Catholic! We can document everything because the early Church was CATHOLIC. There are some awesome books about this.
Not the least of which is Jimmy Akin’s “The fathers know best”


#18

Did the early church believe in the real presence?

The apostle Paul says so..

"I speak to sensible people; judge for yourselves what I say. Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ?"
1 Cor 10: 15-16


#19

Thanks for the answers. And yes i got that "the eay church believed in a symbolic presence" from a baptist preacher....and now that ive got sources and info i know the truth now!! :)


#20

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