Did the Pope issue an apology


#1

for the Church’s crimes against humanity? If not, should it?


#2

Can you be more specific about the crimes against humanity?God Bless


#3

I know of no such “crimes against humanity”.
What is a “Randian”?


#4

[quote=Raynd]for the Church’s crimes against humanity? If not, should it?
[/quote]

Pope John Paul II’s Prayer for Forgiveness.

Is this what you had in mind?


#5

He did issue an apology in his visit to the holy land for the silence of many Catholics during the holocaust.

Padre Pio “Don’t worry, work and pray.”


#6

This looks like a hit and run poster,who wants to stir up contraversy and leave:rolleyes: God Bless the Pope:)


#7

Chill people chill…Don’t get all flustered and “banish” me because there is dissent in the room. I wasn’t trying to anger people. It’s a legitimate question. I’ve been interested in religion for quite a while, and at one time almost came to the Church but I examined history a little bit, and came to the conclusion that there was too much blood on the hands of most religions for me to feel comfortable with it.

Just to throw stuff out

Crusades,

Mountefort

Inquisition

I thought I read that the pope had apologized for the inquisition. I was just curious, and it doesn’t mean that I feel he should have.


#8

Yes, the Pope did apologise for all of these things.The Pope is a very Holy man,in your research,do some on him.What is your religion I have never heard of it before either?God Bless


#9

I admit that there was abuse and an anti-semetic attitude among many in Europe. Given the erroneous belief that the Jews were an accursed and rejected people. The Church’s teaching on the relationshiop between Catholics and Jewish people through the centuries has been so misunderstood given that many of the violences committed were done by people who acted out of ignorance.

Padre Pio “Don’t worry, work and pray.”


#10

I remember that the Pope prayed for forgiveness for those who caused harm in the name of the Catholic Church. It was a great moment for me as a Catholic.


#11

Randian: Someone who holds to the philosophy of Ayn Rand, the putz who created a philosophy called Objectivism… thus ruining a perfectly good word.

Edit: all Randians I know are militantly atheistic, and usually aren’t very interested in fair and unbiased assesments of religion, especially the Catholic Church.


#12

Whoooaaa there tiger. You seem awfully angry.
So you know some Randians huh? Great…
I can’t see that I totally agree with all of Rand’s ideas…but her grasp of reality I find quite compelling. I actually haven’t met anyone who didn’t strive for objectivity in their daily dealings with their surroundings…

[quote=Théodred]Randian: Someone who holds to the philosophy of Ayn Rand, the putz who created a philosophy called Objectivism… thus ruining a perfectly good word.

Edit: all Randians I know are militantly atheistic, and usually aren’t very interested in fair and unbiased assesments of religion, especially the Catholic Church.

[/quote]


#13

[quote=Théodred]Randian: Someone who holds to the philosophy of Ayn Rand, the putz who created a philosophy called Objectivism… thus ruining a perfectly good word.

Edit: all Randians I know are militantly atheistic, and usually aren’t very interested in fair and unbiased assesments of religion, especially the Catholic Church.

[/quote]

Yeah, easy Tiger Puppy. I’m not so sure sandblasting someone’s “religion” and calling their founder a “putz” is the best way to start up an apologetic conversation.

Maybe a new thread is in order for learning about Objectivism and Raynd’s take on things. But that’s not for me to do.

Raynd, the Crusades have been discussed, as well as the Inquisitions, in several not too distant threads in the Apologetics forum I believe. Catholic scholars, and non-Catholic scholars have been quite strong in presenting an “objective” defense of those events in history. Not knowing all about the issues myself, I have to say that when I do learn something new, it tends to support the Church’s medieval perspective.

Not to say that there weren’t atrocities committed, and for those, apologies (even if general) are in order. But the whole desire for the Church to defend the civilized people from the Muslims, and hold her flock, which her Bishops and priests are accountable to God for, holding them to fidelity to their baptismal vows? I’m not Catholic, but no apology please for wanting to be a good Catholic!


#14

If you could point me to some good text written by non catholic scholars that would be great. My Catholic friends always intoduce me to Catholic writings (which is fine) but I would like to read some more “removed” points of view…just for scholarly pursuit…

[quote=Reformed Rob]Yeah, easy Tiger Puppy. I’m not so sure sandblasting someone’s “religion” and calling their founder a “putz” is the best way to start up an apologetic conversation.

Maybe a new thread is in order for learning about Objectivism and Raynd’s take on things. But that’s not for me to do.

Raynd, the Crusades have been discussed, as well as the Inquisitions, in several not too distant threads in the Apologetics forum I believe. Catholic scholars, and non-Catholic scholars have been quite strong in presenting an “objective” defense of those events in history. Not knowing all about the issues myself, I have to say that when I do learn something new, it tends to support the Church’s medieval perspective.

Not to say that there weren’t atrocities committed, and for those, apologies (even if general) are in order. But the whole desire for the Church to defend the civilized people from the Muslims, and hold her flock, which her Bishops and priests are accountable to God for, holding them to fidelity to their baptismal vows? I’m not Catholic, but no apology please for wanting to be a good Catholic!
[/quote]


#15

[quote=Reformed Rob]Yeah, easy Tiger Puppy. I’m not so sure sandblasting someone’s “religion” and calling their founder a “putz” is the best way to start up an apologetic conversation.
[/quote]

It’s not a religion.

BTW, Raynd… the last time I checked I wasn’t a tiger… and you’re wishing me to be one isn’t going to change the fact. (Is it ok to use Randianisms with a Randian?) I’m not angry either. Truth doesn’t always sound kind when you are on the wrong side of it.


#16

Hmmm…

I can only tell you of some non-Catholics that are totally against the Church. So, if you read 2 books, I’d recommend one being by a Catholic, and the other by a non-Catholic.

When I said some non-Catholic scholars have been quite strong in presenting an “objective” defense of those events in history, I apologize, but I’m not able to provide you with any right now, but I’ll get a list for you perhaps later. That sounds like a cop out, but really, Don’t have them in-house, or a list, so sorry, just heard some quotes referring to non-Catholics on those topics.

As for what I understand to be the “basic” text against the Inquisitions, that would probably be:

“Spanish Inquisition” by Jean Plaidy

She’s pretty critical of it.

Oh yes, I remember now, one of the more prominent books that’s supposed to be pretty good and I’ve heard quoted before is “Inquisition” by Edward Peters, who is not a Catholic, he’s like a medieval historian at the University of Pennsylvania. And he’s not bashing it all the time, actually presents positive things about it compared to non-Christian legal processes at place in the culture at the time.

I recommend those with the perspective that if you read one, you’ll think “great” but if you read another, you’ll be like “well wait, maybe it’s not so easy.” So choose carefully the order you read things in, if you do read point/counterpoint type things.


#17

[quote=Raynd]Chill people chill…Don’t get all flustered and “banish” me because there is dissent in the room. I wasn’t trying to anger people. It’s a legitimate question. I’ve been interested in religion for quite a while, and at one time almost came to the Church but I examined history a little bit, and came to the conclusion that there was too much blood on the hands of most religions for me to feel comfortable with it.

Just to throw stuff out

Crusades,

Mountefort

Inquisition

I thought I read that the pope had apologized for the inquisition. I was just curious, and it doesn’t mean that I feel he should have.
[/quote]

There is also, “blood on the hands of some Americans” for things we have done wrong, but I am still a US citizen. Yes, I know one is a government, and one is a religion…my point is that you can’t loose hope in something because of human foolishness. Put your faith in God and not in the men of the Catholic church. There are holy men in this church and there are those who do not always do the right things, we all fail…but the true faith is here…and so is Jesus…ask Jesus for your faith to be in Him and the faith he has given us in the Catholic faith itself, and if you are sincere, He will reveal the truth to you.
Deus Vobiscum!


#18

These apologies are one of the reason I have respect for this pope. He forgave the person who tried to kill him; he apologized for sins that previous popes have denied, ignored, or for that fact perpetuated. As far as I can tell, he tries to walk the talk.

JPII rocks!

Alan


#19

Hello and Bless All

Are we all not human and made of sin? Is the Lord our source of redemtion and thru him alone are we cleansed of our sins?
The diffulculty you have with religion is found on a false presumption ,it is not religion you seek but it is the Lord himself !! Look unto him for your answers.

WITH HIM ALL THINGS ARE TRUE
:love:


#20

the way i see it, yes there have been horrible things done by some catholics, perhaps even in the name of the church. but the church itself did not do the harm.

Besides, like Peter said, “who else has the words of eternal life.” no matter what is in the past, no many how many bad preists bishops or popes, no matter how may travesties comitted by church members, the church is still Christ’s.


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