Different views of Catholic life


We frequently hear read and see, that Pope Francis handles Catholicism different to our tradition, rules and regulations.
But did Jesus Christ when He was incarnated here among us, strictly keep tradition, rules and regulations?
No! He even called the Pharisees who insisted on them, a brut of vipers!

We all know, that the late, most popular Pope Benedict recently said, that he and Pope Francis are of one mind, and not even a sheep of paper would squeeze between them. Pope Francis dismissed the Secretary of the congregation of belief - Cardinal Gerhard MĂĽller, because MĂĽller clued onto rules and regulations of tradition.
Now here is an interview with Cardinal Gerhard MĂĽller. Make up your own mind to it:

I heard it with very mixed feelings.
Tom me here again rules and regulations of tradition seems more important than our personal and lively relation to God. Cardinal Gerhard Müller is liable to become Pope. He’s rightly Cardinal, and in the right age.
What would happen is he would?
He’d return to all the traditions and rules the pre-Francis time followed, but in fact were not really minded nor cared about among a great number of Catholics.

That would mean that those newcomers to our Church who turned to our Church because of enthusiasm for Pope Francis, disappointedly would leave again. Headlines among Catholics would be „back to traditional lines“ and even many Catholics would leave.
We all know, that heavens is more delighted about the one sinner who returns, than about the 100 that don’t sin

There would become a new chaos within our Church.
Would God want this?
OK - our world favours evolution to creation (instead of having both within creation) - a main reason for loss of belief. Further more our time thinks God is redundant up to Nietzsche’s “God is dead”. Any afterlife is mostly denied, heaven widely disbelieved. Painfully many Catholics leave Church - also of course because of the many cases of sexual molestation of dependents by clerics within the Church.

I think Cardinal Gerhard Müller was rightly removed off his post, because rules and traditions in the old stile - which I by the way favor because I am old and hardly can accept all alterations - can’t unchanged go on in the face of too many Catholics leaving the Church. The loss of believers is truly dramatic, - simply see the statistics. Truly something must be done.
I’m sure that The Holy Spirit in this situation send Pope Francis.
Of course I think too, that Pope Francis is right, and traditionalists are wrong, because to them tradition is more important than true belief, which is our personal relation to God - the “God and I”.



I think you paint a whole group of people with a very broad brush based on their liturgical preferences, preferences which are quite legitimate. And this makes it very difficult to start a real conversation. Some might label me a “traditionalist,” though I am not fond of the labels. I do offer the old rite of the Mass though. So I’m a little offended at the supposed dichotomy between “tradition” and “true belief.” There are issues, there are people who idolize traditional practice and see it as an end unto itself, rather than a means to worshipping God. But this is by no means always the case.



From what I know of him he would make a great pope and bring less chaos. Clear teachings after this period of unclarity and open diaglogue would be a breathe of fresh air.


This post is preposterous and should be removed.


The “news pivot” aimed clearly at dwelling in controversy while cardinal Müller was peacefully digressing -and so too, struggling with the language.

A remarkable example of the persuasive and pervasive power of expression: The “news anchor’s” over-articulated speech emphasized with caricatured facial expressions before the Cardinals elderly “close to falling asleep” impassibility.

[The “eyebrow do” accident the “news anchor” obviously had, was that a modern “mass media” tactical attention garnering detail or just a “esthetician’s moment of distraction”?]

The somberness dim lit ambience of the wooden study/library threatening to flood into a swimming pool by the sudden downpour of polemics with occasional showers of sensationalist anchor interjections like high turbulence winds coming from all directions.


Let @BrunoMaria post, I appreciate his style and thoughts :slight_smile:


I guess there could be some who idolize tradition, but there are also those who idolize novelty and love the personal control they get without having to worry about “rules” and traditions.

Most who support traditional practices do so because they nourish our faith and they see the profileration of novelty in the Church coinciding with the proliferation of loss of faith.

Tradition, received by all and applying to all, also fosters unity. Novelty, which is introduced by some contrary to the tradition, necessarily causes division from those who still adhere to the tradition.

Until very recently, the Church was very cautious in introducing even acceptable novelties for these reasons (among others).


Well, I don’t appreciate being called a heretic to whom

If he removes that statement, I have no issue with his thoughts.


@Genesis315 I always like your posts, in my view it’s as simple as this: “Fallen away” Catholics are realistically the majority and the pope feels that to be a real priority, in this attending and receiving those seeking to find their way back to the faith is of upmost importance and all are well reminded that “the prodigal children” returning will come from all walks of life and in all states of life, thus additional emphasis on the patient charitable welcoming of them at that particular point of their pilgrimage. [Everything else attempts to stir up a controversy which I do not believe to be there to begin with.]


I don’t really think that was the reason, the choice for those positions is very complex and takes into consideration many aspects of the person making the better suited candidate for the specific needs of the moment.


I’m not entirely sure what this has to do with my post. I was commenting on how labeling and dismissing people who do not share your views is not exactly fair.



as “adgloriam” wrote:
…“Fallen away” Catholics are realistically the majority and the pope feels that to be a real priority, in this attending and receiving those seeking to find their way back to the faith is of upmost importance and all are well reminded that “the prodigal children” returning will come from all walks of life and in all states of life…"

that’ precisely what I keep saying for years!
And remember how The Father received these prodigal sons. As we know: …heavens is more delighted about the one sinner who returns, than about the 100 that don’t sin.
Our great Pope Francis by knowing this, such turns more to the one than to the hundred.

adgloriam - you are as beared as I am. But I bet you are many centuries younger ;-D


Sorry @edward_george1 I got carried away by writing (and was also addressing @BrunoMaria in that short satire about the news), I guess the “news anchor’s” constant reference to polemics stirred a weird reaction in me :slight_smile: I find that way of presenting news “mind boggling”. [I really do enjoy Canadian Salt&Light by way of contrast and comparison - because they are really balanced, sober, calm, and soft spoken.]

And I do appreciate your posts on “labeling and dismissing people who do not share your views is not exactly fair.” Very well put !!! There has been a lot of passionate posting stirring up reactions on the CAF, going along those lines, lately :slight_smile:


Papst Franziskus weiss genau was er tut und sagt. Er hatt mahl die “Die höfische Gesellschaft” erwhant und das war eine klare referenz zu Norbert Elias. Wir sollen in dem Frieden und Ruhe des Heiligen Geists unseren lieben Papst vertrauen, er ist der ausgewhalte des Heiligen Geists um unsere Kirche zu leiten und niemand anders. Alle die gegen den Papst Polemik erheben wollen versthehen nichts.

Ich sage ihnen gnädiger herr @BrunoMaria, das sind alles Zeichen der Zeiten!

Ich weiss einfach nicht ob ich so eihnen Komplimment wĂĽrdige bin, aber Ich habe noch alles vor mir und hoffentlich werde ich noch einen Tag auch ein reifer man sein :slight_smile:


Gut dass Sie beide Hochdeutsch schreiben, nicht Dialekt.


Well, I wish I’d speak as well English as you speak German. How come you do? My spelling mistakes are masses. Such as I wrote YOU ARE AS BEARED AS I AM- it should have been YOU ARE AS BEARDED AS I AM :wink:

As to Pope Francis, I keep fighting daily against the ridiculous badmouth talks about him. He is a great Pope and does as Jesus did.





    August 17

Gut dass Sie beide Hochdeutsch schreiben, nicht Dialekt.

Ha ha ha - I speak broadest dialect of Karlsruhe ;-D

But dialect is a cultural artifact as well. Sad it’s fading away. But I’m to blame as well, as my two sons never heard us speak dialect. Among ourselves though and among friends, I speak dialect only.


Thank God for dialects fading away in Germany… when I hear Plattdeutsch or Bayerisch they are almost impossible to understand :frowning_face:


Importans is, that I anderstand Bavarians very well. Prussians don’t have to understand this fine language :wink:
Plattdeutsch is more Dutch. Onpe upon a time this region was dutch anyhow. I don’t get is either. But if we real Germans approach, they hurry to switch to proper German.
But matsch Professor Higgins in My Fair Lady. He could tell from which region any English Persons originate by his dialect.
So cam I in German. And the singer of my late sons band, Ben Brown lived in NY, Miami and Seattle. In 1995 he lived here with us in our house. He could terribly well imitate American slangs from North to South. We often had a great laugh when he did. The Difference between Boston’ apparently High English" and Texas’ broad American is enormous.
But then Professor Higgings said “Americans never spoke English at all”. I mean I lived in England in mid 50s and even I noticed the immense difference between English and American :wink:
A huge difference is too between Irish English or Scotch English and “Queens English”.
But we got off topic. The different views of Catholic life.


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