Difficult to refute this claim about Church corruption


#1

How would one refute the following statement from an opinion piece or is it simply a fact that must be faced? “By any secular standard, the Catholic Church is a corrupt organization. It in fact sets the standard for impunity.”
Any thoughts?


#2

my thought is this:

Satan is winning, for the time being,

the Catholic Church, who most secularists despise anyway is merely collateral damage

posters who come here with the single purpose to snipe at the Catholic Church ought to take a broader view of the society at large


#3

I agree with the article and as a loyal Catholic, I think the majority of Catholics need to accept the same conclusion or things will never change and we will never be able to get the Church back where it needs to be. You have to acknowledge a problem in order to start fixing it. As long as Catholics are in denial, this is going to go on, and spiral downward.

But we also can’t let it shake our faith. The Church has been in worse trouble in history and it has pulled out. It is a never-ending battle against evil and often the battle is right in our midst. But there are still a lot of great priests, bishops and cardinals. They are certainly the majority. It is still a great Church, the only Church founded by God himself. It is people who have corrupted it and allowed it to be corrupted, and it is people who have to fix it.


#4

Blaming Satan for this copious abuse, corruption and cover-up is the easy way out. This is the work of evil people throughout the entire infrastructure of the Church.


#5

I agree. I think Satan is sitting back on this one thinking, “Hey, I can take a break on this one. These people are doing my job for me!”


#7

:face_with_raised_eyebrow: I don’t think so. His account is nearly a year old. Did you read that on accident?


#10

OP deserved a scolding, imho


#11

In my opinion the Church is in need of major reform. It needs to take a long hard look in the mirror. I just saw today Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano has called for Pope Francis to resign, that the Pope knew about the corruption and abuse going on within the Church and did nothing. And now only after everything has become public is he doing something. This is like trying to close the barn door after the horses have been let out.

It’s truly frightening, that corruption seems to have reached among the highest levels of the hierarchy (Cardinal McCarrick).


#12

¿Porque no los dos?

I’m not sure it is worth attempting to refute for a few reasons:

  1. It isn’t entirely unfounded. The Church does need to seriously address this.
  2. Most will start moving on once another organization gets exposed or, as was the case this time, has major revelations made on an already-exposed problem. The Catholic Church is just the example now because of the last couple of weeks.
  3. Whether or not the Church is the standard, it doesn’t change the fact that we need to do better.

#13

Wow, that is a super-sensitive reply. How is anything I said sniping? Name calling me a coward? Wrongly asserting I joined today? You need a good night’s sleep.


#14

Intelligent dialogue wanted. Scolding is juvenile and boring.


#15

It’s just rhetoric nothing more. It wouldn’t even deserve a response if not for the fact that so many people today are taken in by such rhetorical nonsense. It’s not a fact at all, it’s quite sad that one might think rhetoric is fact.

There is one glaringly obviously example that this author seems to have missed…Hollywood. It has its own institutional abuse. Political parties also have this problem, though people don’t know much about it’s pervasiveness. I suspect the MSM also has an abusive sub-culture that, for obvious reasons, goes unreported.

So this author’s rhetoric only comes across as an attack - singling out one institution, probably because of either his own bias, or because he is simply using it as a means to write about a sensational topic.


#16

One, ask yourself where this question came from. Most likely not an objective source. Those who “hate” the church have an agenda, and this problem suites them to a T.
Second, at least in my corner of the world (The United States) this corruption is in a very real sense, a thing of the past. I’ve said this before in other threads, since 2002 and the Dallas Conference, measures have been put in place to insure any of these abuse situations that arise will be dealt with swiftly, effectively, and with all civil and ecclesial authorities involved.
PEOPLE HAVE TO REMEMBER (unless they choose not to) that these events happened over 20 years ago; some as long as fifty years ago.
Now, if in 20 years we find the problem still exists in a large scale, and all we are hearing now from the bishops are platitudes, that’s a horse of a different color.


#17

The problem today seems to be not so much that the abuse itself is ongoing (at least here) as that those who did the covering-up have yet to be exposed and punished.


#18

A valid point. But now, in 2010 or 2018, there are not hundreds of priests abusing young boys (and girls) and scores of bishops covering it up. At least I hope so. I am one who is willing to believe something until it is proved wrongs.
Cardinal Weurl’s action is questionable, true, but one should ask how intentionally “evil” it was. Was it a single mistake in judgment? The pope’s action with McCarrick, have to admit, that bothers me. I think at the highest level, there is some lack of understanding of the public effect of these private decisions.


#19

It’s simple. You believe that Jesus was telling the truth when He told Peter: You are Peter and on this rock I will build my Church. The gates of Hell will not prevail against it. You believe that His Truth, His Keys to the Kingdom and His authority to loose and to bind or you don’t.

If you DO believe it, then stay, get involved and make change. You are not impotent in the life of the Church. You can be part of the change the Church needs if you so choose. If you do not believe the words of our Lord to Peter, then you are already out of the Church.

The people of the Church will always be fallible. Sometimes, in little ways. Other times, as now and even more so in prior times, in unspeakable and deeply disturbing ways. If every lay Catholic, priest, bishop and pope were corrupt, it would not change one letter of Christ’s teachings and His salvation through the sacraments.

Simple does NOT mean easy. You will not win any popularity contests staying faithful to the teachings of the Church. Mild name calling is probably the least of what you will hear leveled against you. You will probably feel ashamed, shocked, disgusted and disturbed by the actions of Church leaders. You will need strength and courage to go against the tide of popular opinion. It is worth it to have life in Him.


#20

Also, read the John Jay report. Look at the statistics. Read the percentages. Just as one case is one case too many, you will also learn that the rate of sexual abuse within the Church is commensurate, or slightly lower, than the rate of sexual abuse within secular society as well as within other “helping” professions. Again, one is too many. But this is not a “Catholic church” problem…this is a human problem.


#21

The Church isn’t corrupt, it is mostly a minority of people and these things happen in other places that aren’t considered corrupt.


#23

I am tiring of the defense that the Church is no worse than other institutions. Is this the standard to which we hold ourselves?


#24

@Kevink , you say in the title of thread that it is “difficult to refute this claim about Church corruption.”

Where there is corruption in the Church we don’t refute it . We admit to it . It’s not very nice having to admit corruption in a Church you love and believe to be founded by Jesus Christ , but the truth must be out . We know what happens when things are covered up .

Yesterday in Dublin Pope Francis spent an hour and a half with eight victims of abuse .He condemned corruption and cover up within the Church as “caca” . Caca means excrement or in common parlance s**t .

So when there is s**t in the Church we need to call it by its name and not to attempt to refute it .

I know nothing of the author of this article , but from the tone of it he doesn’t seem to have much love for the Church . I don’t blame him . These evils went on for 70 years , and how much beyond that I don’t know.

We are in for a rough time .

Pope Francis has called for prayer and fasting , traditional Christian weapons against evil . But how many will respond to his call ? No need to answer , because the answer gives the reason why the Church has lurched from one crisis to another over the centuries .

Who is to blame ?

Any Catholic who compromises the call of Jesus’ Gospel , and I’m one of them to my shame.


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