Digital realistic pipe organ vs guitars (kumbaya stuff)


#1

Today I went to a Sunday morning mass where, despite there being installed a beautiful old pipe organ recently, music was sung by a lady with a guitar and an accompiniment. I felt like I was at a folk rock concert…not some place holy. Do people actually prefer this???I decided to stay at the other parish because of this. On Sunday mornings they have a full choir and pipe organs. Even during evening Sunday mass, the flute and piano sounds a lot more refined, they aren’t playing hymns in contemporary rhythms. (I know this sounds hilariously fuddy duddy but it really takes away from things for me.

Ive found out that pipe organists are in very short supply nowadays. But nowadays you also have digital modulation that sounds amazingly like real instruments, including pipe organ, especially out of a big sound system. All you need is the sound system, a midi keyboard and a laptop with a program like Reason installed and a decent piano player.

How would you feel about that option compared to the guitars and stuff? Im curious.


#2

Where does everyone else on this forum LIVE where a guitar is somehow something hellworthy? I've NEVER attended a single Mass in my whole LIFE that didn't have a guitar o.0 Whats the big deal?


#3

If a church has a good pipe organ, great, but if I were in charge of purchasing for a new church, I would go with one of the digitals. For Mass, they have a very realistic pipe organ sound. For other events, they have a ton of other sounds that can be used. They are reliable, in that they never need tuning or the kind of overhaul that pipe organs occasionally need. The only drawback is that they are just as dependent on electricity as pipe organs; in both cases, if there is a power outage, then we're back to guitars or pianos.


#4

not allowed,thats why.and don't ask me my source.use the search function or just wait ,someone will along shortly yelling about heretics :D


#5

I dont think anyone thinks guitar music = satans favourite music. It’s just that the pipe organs are so much more aurally majestic sounding. Though actually it’s when the pipe organ is playing quietly that it moves me the most. Maybe it’s pure aesthetics but I dont want to feel like Im at a Raffi concert when Im in mass. If the power goes out, bring out the guitars by all means. Or we could just have the choir…

Though maybe it was where I grew up downtown in a big city, all the churches were very old and had pipe organs. I think at my Lutheran church we had a guitar player once , while the Sunday school kids were singing. So maybe Im biased.


#6

[quote="michele1984, post:1, topic:304862"]
Today I went to a Sunday morning mass where, despite there being installed a beautiful old pipe organ recently, music was sung by a lady with a guitar and an accompiniment. I felt like I was at a folk rock concert..not some place holy. Do people actually prefer this???I decided to stay at the other parish because of this. On Sunday mornings they have a full choir and pipe organs. Even during evening Sunday mass, the flute and piano sounds a lot more refined, they aren't playing hymns in contemporary rhythms. (I know this sounds hilariously fuddy duddy but it really takes away from things for me.

Ive found out that pipe organists are in very short supply nowadays. But nowadays you also have digital modulation that sounds amazingly like real instruments, including pipe organ, especially out of a big sound system. All you need is the sound system, a midi keyboard and a laptop with a program like Reason installed and a decent piano player.

How would you feel about that option compared to the guitars and stuff? Im curious.

[/quote]

So; did you offer to play the organ for this parish at mass?:confused:


#7

[quote="michele1984, post:1, topic:304862"]
Today I went to a Sunday morning mass where, despite there being installed a beautiful old pipe organ recently, music was sung by a lady with a guitar and an accompiniment. I felt like I was at a folk rock concert..not some place holy. Do people actually prefer this???I decided to stay at the other parish because of this. On Sunday mornings they have a full choir and pipe organs. Even during evening Sunday mass, the flute and piano sounds a lot more refined, they aren't playing hymns in contemporary rhythms. (I know this sounds hilariously fuddy duddy but it really takes away from things for me.

Ive found out that pipe organists are in very short supply nowadays. But nowadays you also have digital modulation that sounds amazingly like real instruments, including pipe organ, especially out of a big sound system. All you need is the sound system, a midi keyboard and a laptop with a program like Reason installed and a decent piano player.

How would you feel about that option compared to the guitars and stuff? Im curious.

[/quote]

I am sorry that you have such a low opinion on guitars. to be honest, maybe you could listen to some beautiful guitar music and try to expand music tastes. Silent Night, perhaps one of the most beloved Christimas carol of all time was written for a guitar because the pipe organ was broken. Maybe today, your pipe organ needed repair. Likewise at my parish when the regular music director is off, we have a sub guitarist, and the music is very reverent and touching. I am always amazed when people get stuck on one particular musical instrument or style. The is nothing anywhere that states music must be lead by a pipe organ, the earliest Christians certainly did not have them. The book of Psalms repeated states "string instruments". If people have complaints about the music at mass, they should take them to the music director of their parish first than post them on the internet to look for support for their tastes in music.


#8

If you don’t like the music you should:

  1. speak to your music director
  2. realize that this is just only personal opinion and tastes
  3. learn the pipe organ yourself and offer your services to your church

#9

I would like to ask the moderator to close this thread down. Having a thread about music tastes in Church or to complain about music in Mass is only to cause devisiveness between members. You can line up a number one way or the other. If someone didn’t like the music at Mass, the first and only step is the approach the music director of the parish and speak with them. To come on CAF and post one’s opinions about what type of music they think should be at Mass is inappropriate and only will cause fights among us. You can line up a bunch of us that love different instruments at Mass against those who ony think pipe organ and nothing else. No one wins in this type of discussion.


#10

But the Church has actually ruled on this, several times.

The unaccompanied human voice is the really preferred sound for Mass. After that, the accompanied human voice is permissible. After that, instrumentals.

The pipe organ is the queen of the instruments, able to play like an orchestra in itself, able to use the “vox humana” sound, and able to accompany human singers. It has been declared by the Church to be uniquely suitable for sacred music, and is the officially preferred instrument of music for Mass.

“Silent Night” was played on the guitar BECAUSE THE ORGAN WASN’T WORKING, and because there were literally no other instruments in walking distance of the parish. Otherwise, Father Mohr would have saved his composition for a more suitable occasion. He was desperately trying to fill time, since the organist couldn’t do any of his prepared pieces.

After organs, various classical concert instruments are preferred. Then band instruments. Way after that, we get to the miscellaneous secular instruments, like guitar, or piano, or MIDI keyboards, or tambourines.

Guitars held strong associations as a fun-time secular instrument in Fr. Mohr’s time, and they still have that connotation. There are ways to play the guitar sacredly, but it pretty much involves playing the guitar with great dignity, to try to make people forget guitars as secular instruments.

Unfortunately, many players do not even attempt to play for the Lord in a sacred manner, because they’ve never heard sacred music. That’s the real tragedy.


#11

Again, if someone has a question about music at Mass, they should go to their music director and discuss their concerns instead of going on the internet to get other’s opinions and comments when we have only one side of the story. I have had 12 years of classical piano and do play guitar so I think your post is rather condensending about music. Also I am not sure about what the difference is between so called “concert” instruments as being superior to so called 'band" instruments since those lowly band instruments are the same ones used in concert bands. There are fewer and fewer properly trained organists that are able to play a pipe organ. There are many more available and talented muscians that could play at Mass if given the right music and start. I brought up Silent Night because it is a soft and gentle and beloved song. It is not meant for an opportunity for you to bash my point in capital letters. I have seen many beautifully done guitar music at Masses much more than what was posted here. To start a thread with Kumbaya is insulting to all those that volunteer to play instruments at Mass.


#12

[quote="DaveBj, post:3, topic:304862"]
If a church has a good pipe organ, great, but if I were in charge of purchasing for a new church, I would go with one of the digitals.

[/quote]

With the right accoustics and reverberation and pipe placement, you can't beat a pipe organ:

youtube.com/watch?v=tnhyS7hgpZU


#13

[quote="ProVobis, post:12, topic:304862"]
With the right accoustics and reverberation and pipe placement, you can't beat a pipe organ:

youtube.com/watch?v=tnhyS7hgpZU

[/quote]

And someone to play it:p


#14

[quote="triumphguy, post:13, topic:304862"]
And someone to play it:p

[/quote]

Well, if they had asked me about 25 years ago...


#15

It’s never too late to start!


#16

[quote="michele1984, post:1, topic:304862"]

Ive found out that pipe organists are in very short supply nowadays. But nowadays you also have digital modulation that sounds amazingly like real instruments, including pipe organ, especially out of a big sound system. All you need is the sound system, a midi keyboard and a laptop with a program like Reason installed and a decent piano player.

How would you feel about that option compared to the guitars and stuff? Im curious.

[/quote]

As someone who loves real live pipe organs and severely mourns the loss of it during Advent and Lent, I'm going to say no to the phony midi organ (they really don't sound the same). I really want to learn how to play the pipe organ for Mass. The only things stopping me are a) insufficient funds for organ lessons, and b) No organ to practice on.

I think it would be more advantageous for parish communities to actively seek out people willing to learn how to play the pipe organ, and then financially support them and provide them with ample practice time on the church's organ.


#17

[quote="DaveBj, post:3, topic:304862"]
The only drawback is that they are just as dependent on electricity as pipe organs; in both cases, if there is a power outage, then we're back to guitars or pianos.

[/quote]

Not so! Gregorian chant needs no accompaniment.


#18

[quote="robwar, post:11, topic:304862"]
Again, if someone has a question about music at Mass, they should go to their music director and discuss their concerns instead of going on the internet to get other's opinions and comments when we have only one side of the story. I have had 12 years of classical piano and do play guitar so I think your post is rather condensending about music. Also I am not sure about what the difference is between so called "concert" instruments as being superior to so called 'band" instruments since those lowly band instruments are the same ones used in concert bands. There are fewer and fewer properly trained organists that are able to play a pipe organ. There are many more available and talented muscians that could play at Mass if given the right music and start. I brought up Silent Night because it is a soft and gentle and beloved song. It is not meant for an opportunity for you to bash my point in capital letters. I have seen many beautifully done guitar music at Masses much more than what was posted here. To start a thread with Kumbaya is insulting to all those that volunteer to play instruments at Mass.

[/quote]

And what do you do if the only guitarist is the music director & one who is not approachable. Not even the priest or he'll quit. Now, I'm a big fan of country music, but not loud, especially in church. Anyone can strum a guitar, but very few can play it.
I think the OP is entitled to his opinion as to the church he attended.
And if Mintaka offended you, you have very thin skin. That's my OPINION.


#19

[quote="triumphguy, post:15, topic:304862"]
It's never too late to start!

[/quote]

You mean RE-start?

I did get a chance to play a pipe organ during a retreat about 20 years ago. Sort of blows you away when you have the pipes at a distance from the console and there is a delay but the sound is incredible.


#20

I am not anti-guitars per se, but the pipe organ adds a depth and solemnity that no other instrument can. In the UK if you are prepared to pay, an organist will appear, but it's a sad fact here that Catholics have fewer organs than the other denominations.


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