how do i answer someone who asys that curing disease is against God’s will because what if he intended the person to die? and they compare it with abortion and cloning saying that if you intervene with God’s will in one area, you can do it with others. sorry, i know i posted this last night but it was pretty late so i didn’t get many responses. thanks
This is a very good question and alot of people have different views on this topic, thats why alot of people refuse to see doctors, take medicine, or let their kids see ANY doctors, no matter what they have.
truthfully, I can see their points (from both sides of the argument), especially if it is a disease that is not brought on by someones actions. It does make a person wonder why a kid would get such horrible diseases and sicknesses…It is possible God is calling them home and if man tries to interfere by use of medicine, that is akin to playing God…?? but what about the kids that are cured from medicine? was this God, nothing to do with God, the enemy, etc?
Im not sure about where I stand on this, but I have heard one of the forbidden knowledges taught to mankind by the fallen angels was root-cutting (Pharmacology), so it makes me wonder if we should even be in this business, but to weigh that against all the good modern medicine has done…?? IDK…Good thread question!
For hundreds or thousands of years people prayed for cures to diseases and God answered by giving us doctors and researchers that have been able to come up with treatments and cures and are continuing to do so. Now it’s supposedly against His will to make use of these answered prayers?
Nothing is outside the Will of God. He either ordains or permits everything that happens. My Catholic orientation is based on the Serenity Prayer by Reinhold Niebuhr:
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.
God’s own Holy Spirit works with us as individuals. Disease for all humans is the result of Original Sin. For His own good purposes, sometimes God wishes us to be cured. Alternatively, He might want us to work out our salvation by bearing up through the disease.
It’s all very individual because God loves each one of us as individuals and has a customized plan for all of us. Many sinful people have lived long, comfortable and prosperous lives. Many saints have suffered horribly. What matters is where we will end up.
Please pray for God’s Holy Will for you.
"how do i answer someone who says that curing disease is against God’s will because, what if He intended the person to die?"
This is the Argument by Christian Scientists : If God don’t heal ya, then you were meant to Die.
Well, the Bible is full of times when people relied on MORE than God’s Will to cure their illness.
For instance, there was the Woman who touched Jesus on his cloak. She had been to all kinds of Doctors for 18 years.
So, if it is NOT pooh-pooh’d in the Bible, then God probably doesn’t care if we receive Medical Treatment.
If that person gets a Headache, and refuses to take an Aspirin, that’s fine with me.
If that person chooses to forgo Cancer treatment … Well, it was Nice knowing you.
As far as Cloning is concerned, that person can just agree to NEVER be Cloned.
Abortion is a different matter. The Church has decided that Abortion is a BIG no-no.
These are all completely Optional, and are NOT meant to Cure a Disease.
"they compare it with abortion and cloning saying that if you intervene with God’s will in one area, you can do it with others."
Fine, they don’t need to have an Abortion, or Clone themselves (and do not need to lose any sleep over the fact that others might do it).
And, if a person claimed that he didn’t want Medical Care, it seems unlikely that the ONLY reason for it, is worrying about what God might say to him in the After-Life.
But, Hey, people do what people do. People believe what people believe.
This reminds me of the (real) OLD saying : If God wanted us to Fly, He’d have made us with Wings.
So, what if God’s Will is for everyone to WALK wherever they Go?
Every car driver, bus passenger, and airplane pilot are blatantly violating God’s Will.
The same thing occurs.
People don’t know what God’s Will is … and start to point at everything, and question it.
I do not believe that disease is an action of God’s will, but a function of the Fall of our Human nature. Our use of our intellect in discovering the wonders of our creation also includes Medicine. Medicine’s value is developed in the foundation of its Ethics which is always towards the good. This of course fails with the failure of our reason in its complete orientation to the Will of God, and we find Abortion cloning and the obscene use of human fetuses.
However the general direction to cure and avoid pain is a natural good that God gives as part of His natural goodness.
To ignore the value of this gift of the intellect is rejecting a gift from God.
Pain is a tool of diagnosis, but once used for this purpose anything that alleviates pain that is legally available is quite licit to use.
So if a stray dog bites you, there is no reason to get the rabies vaccination? After all, if God wants you dead, then perhaps that is how he wants you to die.
For that matter, there is no reason to try to defend yourself from the dog. Let the dog maul you, while you simply stand there. After all, if God wants you dead, perhaps that is how he wants you to die.
If you fall off a cliff, should you try to stop your fall by grabbing at tree branches or roots? If God wants you dead, maybe that is how he wants it done.
Tornado sirens are wailing and you look out your window to see a monster of a storm coming your way. Do you seek shelter, or simply shrug it off? Perhaps, as the snake handlers say: "If God wants me dead, he will kill me. If I don’t die, then God must want me to live.
Commonsense should tell you the answer to those scenarios. However, the Gospels also make it clear. Consider the account of the temptation of Jesus by Satan, described in Luke chapter 4
9* Then he led him to Jerusalem, made him stand on the parapet of the temple, and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down from here,
10 for it is written: 'He will command his angels concerning you,to guard you,’
11 and:‘With their hands they will support you,lest you dash your foot against a stone.’”
Abortion and cloning have nothing to do with saving yourself, or another human’s life, by curing disease. In fact, abortion and cloning involve destroying an innocent human life.
It seems people are having problems understanding what Gods will is, so it seems to me, maybe the bible should have been a bit more clear on such things, so more people can understand.
The Bible is not an owner’s manual. It is not intended to be what you are asking for. What you are asking for is provided by the Church.
what about the fallen angel that taught mankind these things that God forbade mankind from learning though?
**Semjaza taught enchantments, and root-cuttings, **
‘root-cutting’ is Pharmacology, so does this mean God did not intend mankind to use such things and their use today is purely because of the demon Semjaza?
If this is true, should we even be using this kind of thing?
Why would God be against mankind learning about such a thing that could be so helpful to people and their lives?
God is the source of truth, so I don’t know how the fallen angel, who has completed separated themselves from God, can teach anything but falsehood.
Who is Semjaza and why should we accept anything attributed to them as true? I don’t think it is true, so your question about pharmacology is meaningless.
God is not against learning. If He was, He would not have given us an intellect and free will.
sorry, i’ll clarify my post on what i mean by dease and God’s will
we are having discussions in biology class, and i need to show how curing a disease is not against god will when using medicinal remedies or surgical procedures
the others are saying that we thrwart God’s by curing sick people and are trying to justify abortion and euthanasia using the same reason
they say that that prolife people are against abortion and euthanasia because it is intervening with God’s will and taking life that he has granted, then they say that curing a deadly disease is the same thing because maybe God was wanting to take that person’s life. and when i say that god could take that person’s life regardless of medicine, they say then that he could save aborted babies if he really wanted to.
is my question making sense?
i need to articulate an answer that will be useful in university biology with a bunch of pretty determined people.
and also, to make things more complicated, there are christian group[BIBLEDRB]s who do think that seeing a doctor for sickness is against God’s will[/BIBLEDRB]
Whether they were fallen or not, these angels/fallen angels, would still have the knowledge they did when they were in heaven, and we know that angels have much greater knowledge than man, so its not much of a stretch to think they may try to teach some of this knowledge to man, even if it was an attempt to thwart God.
Semjaza was one of the fallen angels, it is recorded what each of the fallen angels taught mankind, some taught astrology, some taught about math, psychics, etc.
This comes from book of Enoch btw.
If God was not against man having knowledge, why does mankind not have the knowledge that the angels have? Apparently they know quite a bit more than we do, imagine what our world would be like with free will and knowledge comparable to the angels?!!
Many men and women of science and medicine are also Christians. God has given some people the special talents to discover how to treat illnesses and disease, and they have used those talents for the good of mankind.
There is no contradiction in taking antibiotics to get rid of pneumonia or having surgery for a burst appendix, if you are a Christian. God is working within the minds and hands of the scientists as they strive to find cures for things which would have been killers even in the recent past.
Abortion and euthanasia are not things which restore us to health, they cure nothing and are procedures with one purpose - to end life. It is not the same as being ill or injured and being able to praise God for the skill of your doctors and nurses, who are playing their part to return you to a state of health and well-being.
I think it’s as simple as pointing out that God loves life. Any action we take that produces or protects life fits with God’s will, whereas anything that refuses to protect life or produces death goes against God’s will.
That’s my thoughts, at least.
I think they have oversimplified and perhaps misunderstood the prolife movement. It is not simply that something is going against God’s will. We recognize the dignity and sacred status of life. To end that life because it is inconvenient for us is going against God’s will, yes, but it is much more than that. When we allow abortion or euthanasia we are rejecting these fundamental beliefs about the human person - treating them as mere machines, albeit biological. It is putting a value on human life, which we believe to be invaluable. Saving a person does not devalue them in this way. Moreover, we know that God’s will is not to kill, as Christ healed the man whose ear had been cut off by Peter, or when Christ wept at the news of Lazarus’ passing, before raising him from the dead. It is possible that God may in fact be calling someone home to Him, but we cannot say with full certainty if or when this is ever the case. Therefore, to refuse medical treatment on these grounds is at best questionable and at worst a grave violation of both a doctor’s oath and our duty as Christians.
yeah i get instinctively, it’s explaning it that’s difficult. the basic argument is, that God decides when to grant life or take it. in their view, any interference by us is going against God’s will. that’s what i’m having trouble differentiating
if his will is not to kill, why is there sitll death in the world?