Disipline of secret


#1

I ran across this website and was wondering if this sounds familar to anyone here. Not sure what to think of it.

catholicity.com/encyclopedia/s/secret,discipline_of.html


#2

In earliest times of persecution...the Eucharist was so powerful, so real to those enslaved to the flesh or to the Empire....that its reality was to be protected. The Christians gathered together in the catacombs to worship Christ, to encounter His light coming into the world at the Memorial of the Sacred Meal....among the Roman dead underground.....

That the name for the Eucharist was 'The Secret'.

They protecting the Lord and worship of Him coming to us in fulfillment of Melchizedek....who did not bring bloody sacrifice but gifts of ordinary bread and wine...to be as precursor to the Sacred Meal....the bread and wine becoming the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, our Manna from heaven.


#3

I've never ordered any other their stuff personally, but I have listed to a couple of their CD's over the years.

It all seemed accurate, if I remember correctly.


#4

[quote="twopekinguys, post:3, topic:304100"]
I've never ordered any other their stuff personally, but I have listed to a couple of their CD's over the years.

It all seemed accurate, if I remember correctly.

[/quote]

I read all of it, and it seems to me that not all of the gosple was taught to converts, but was slowly taught. As they begin to gain faith, they were taught some of the deeper teachings which included the teachings of Christ to the apostles after his resurrection of which there are no record in the bible of. They were secret even to those who were members until they reached a higher level of knowledge and understanding. There also secret rites as well.


#5

You have to remember that those Christians were up against immense persecution. Now that they aren't, it isn't necessary. If I'm correct, you're trying to draw parallels between the early Christians and the LDS church... the difference here is that, once persecution subsided, the early Church ended this. If that is the comparison you're trying to make, then why does the LDS church continue to keep their rituals secret? Obviously they're not facing the same persecution that either the early Christians or the early Mormons did.


#6

Yes, that is my understanding from what I have read. The Roman empire would send people who would pretend to be interested in converting to Christianity, with the only intent of discovering where groups of Christians met. Discovery met a early and grisly death. The early Christians were cautious.

The modern RCIA is a recovery from Tradition in the aspect of the dismissals we do every Sunday of the catechumens after the Liturgy of the Word. We don't pray the Our Father with catechumens, not because it is secret (anyone can read it in a Bible), but because it is a sacred prayer of the faithful. In the times of early Christianity, the catechumens were taught the Our Father shortly before their baptism.

A Christian convert was taught EVERYTHING of the faith before their baptism. For some the catechumenate was as long as ten years! If you are going to make a comparison to Mormonism, there is nothing that has ever been kept secret from the baptized. Ever.

As Christianity spread, and whole societies became Christian, what secret was there to keep? All of Europe was Christianized, and Christian converts in Europe requiring initiation (Baptism, Confirmation, Eucharist) into the faith as adults were rare.

These are still sacred things Fatboys. We hold them very dear as sacred teachings, it is the rest of the world (including Mormons) who do not. The world is turning towards pagan ideas again. We ask that non-Catholics not receive communion


#7

[quote="Fatboys, post:4, topic:304100"]
I read all of it, and it seems to me that not all of the gosple was taught to converts, but was slowly taught. As they begin to gain faith, they were taught some of the deeper teachings which included the teachings of Christ to the apostles after his resurrection of which there are no record in the bible of. They were secret even to those who were members until they reached a higher level of knowledge and understanding. There also secret rites as well.

[/quote]

Are you trying to compare Catholic teachings of Biblical times with the mormon practice of not disclosing everything until after the investigator is baptized?

As has been previously mentioned, what you are looking at is when Christian persecution was rampant, in the early days of the church.

Today's RCIA programs are designed to answer any and all questions an inquirer may have. No topic is out of bounds.That is not the case in mormonism i am afraid.

Also, there are no worthiness interviews in order for us to enter a Catholic church, chapel, basilica, cathedral etc.

With that being said, I am not sure what point you are trying to make.


#8

[quote="twopekinguys, post:7, topic:304100"]
Are you trying to compare Catholic teachings of Biblical times with the mormon practice of not disclosing everything until after the investigator is baptized?

As has been previously mentioned, what you are looking at is when Christian persecution was rampant, in the early days of the church.

Today's RCIA programs are designed to answer any and all questions an inquirer may have. No topic is out of bounds.That is not the case in mormonism i am afraid.

Also, there are no worthiness interviews in order for us to enter a Catholic church, chapel, basilica, cathedral etc.

With that being said, I am not sure what point you are trying to make.

[/quote]

Now keeping secret whether or not they were christians and the basic teachings of Christ had to be closely kept as quite as possible, but it was not as successful because thousands were killed persecuted. I am speaking about the deeper meaning of the gospel which was not taught to the converts at first. Reread. I do not gather this from what I was reading. There were also rites associated with this higher level of learning.


#9

Fatboys;

You are talking about a time in the Church when Gnosticism was creeping in, adulterating the pure Gospel. The Church had to sort through these heresies later, when the persecutions had tapered off. The secrecy, a result of the persecutions, had some negative results.

You have to read the Early Church Fathers to understand the Gnostic heresies, and why they were rejected. Maybe then you will understand why the Catholic Church considers Mormonism to be somewhere in the borderlands between heresy and apostasy, depending upon the individual believer.


#10

[quote="Jerusha, post:9, topic:304100"]
Fatboys;

You are talking about a time in the Church when Gnosticism was creeping in, adulterating the pure Gospel. The Church had to sort through these heresies later, when the persecutions had tapered off. The secrecy, a result of the persecutions, had some negative results.

You have to read the Early Church Fathers to understand the Gnostic heresies, and why they were rejected. Maybe then you will understand why the Catholic Church considers Mormonism to be somewhere in the borderlands between heresy and apostasy, depending upon the individual believer.

[/quote]

Exactly


#11

Fatboys....get yourself a copy of the full writings of St. Ireneaus on 'Heresy'. I say full, so you can get the precise context. There are people here on CAF who can help you understand his writings, which were addressing the main heresy of the day -- gnosticism...strange and non -factual imaginings about Christ...He being married to Mary Magdalen, etc etc etc...

Many gnostic writings have come up out of Egypt, some new stories coming about around the year 400 AD....and it was in part heresies and the bubonic plague that weakened the Christian faith of the Egyptians, where they were eventually overcome by the invasion of Islam.


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