Disturbing trend among Evangelical friends


#1

Okay, so during election season, one of my friends who is a non denominational evangelical christian came out in support of obama. On election night he clarified his position when asked, and he said that while he personally thinks gay marriage is wrong and that abortion is wrong, He thinks that government shouldn't tell people what to do. He says that only God can judge what is wrong and right and that if a government were to outlaw gay marriage or abortion it would be a "return to Christendom" like in the middle ages when the church was entwined with the state and that it would lead to a hardening of hearts and that less people would be open to the Gospel message.

Is this a new trend among young evangelicals? I used to think they were mostly very conservative, but now i'm worried. So many that are my age are either apolitical (don't vote or don't really care) or they do the whole "i'm personally against it and the church should be" but government shouldn't." or that "Gods laws shouldn't have to deal with our laws" I find this attitude kind of sad.


#2

You haven't met any catholics like that? (If not, I'm moving to YOUR town!) Why should you expect evangelicals to be any more homogenous than we are? Humans are a fractured and variable bunch and nobody is automatically immune to the siren call of relativism just because of their religious self-identification.


#3

Ditto.


#4

There may be wisdom in you reflecting on your own relationship with Our Lord and not concern yourself so much with others relationship with Him. And I mean that in all charity.

He and He alone know where their souls are at and the best way to shephard them closer to Him.

Pray for them, and trust Christ. Exercise faith and less concern.

He and He alone is God. We simply dont have that kind of wisdom…

Meditate on the parable of Our Lord of the tax collector and the Pharisee. Strive to have the humility of the tax collector and not the ego/arrogance or whatever of the Pharisee…

Those of us who are faithful need to be on guard of those temptation that are illustrated in this parable…

God Bless :slight_smile:


#5

I’ll add another ditto.


#6

There has never been total lockstep between what churches teach and the government allows. Some churches don’t allow drinking or dancing, which are perfectly legal. Some churches don’t allow women to teach or even lead (I mean in ANY capacity) within the church, but this is illegal in the employment world. There are certainly more examples, but I think this makes my point.

Civil law is there to protect religious practice (e.g. no church should be forced to practice gay marriage) but it is also there to protect your personal choices in life (e.g. I have little authority in your personal beliefs and life choices). For sure abuse, theft, murder, etc is no one’s right; but your personal offense or non-understanding is not a basis in itself for law. This is what your friend is talking about.


#7

This may very well be a new trend.
Evangelicals do love their new trends that they get very excited about for for a year or two before it dies out and stops being mentioned. One years it’s the Florida Revival and the next it’s the Purpose Driven Life. The whole nature of Evangelicalism is a constant need to keep everyone excited and bring in new obsessions. It mirrors modern Anglo-Saxon society where most people have 2 minute attention spans.


#8

Thomas Jefferson wrote

'The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government'


#9

He happens to be right.


#10

To, to true! :shrug::banghead:


#11

Yea. This is a very tough subject. Our government is SEPERATED from any religion and that is one of the founding ideas of this country. And while we should hold fast to what our Lord teached, the government CANNOT impose that on anyone. In my opinion, for christians to get there way on these topics we have to change our argument to one that doesn’t speak directly of God but one that indirectly does so we can achieve His will. But you’re right, evangelicals are becoming more and more liberal in there politics.


#12

Yeah…that!:wink:


#13

One problem with the ‘do not judge’ attude is that, in Mathew, right after the ‘judge not’ in Mattew, he said that how we judge others, God will use that measer to judge us. :shrug::cool:


#14

=benjammin;9994946]Okay, so during election season, one of my friends who is a non denominational evangelical christian came out in support of obama. On election night he clarified his position when asked, and he said that while he personally thinks gay marriage is wrong and that abortion is wrong, He thinks that government shouldn’t tell people what to do. He says that only God can judge what is wrong and right and that if a government were to outlaw gay marriage or abortion it would be a “return to Christendom” like in the middle ages when the church was entwined with the state and that it would lead to a hardening of hearts and that less people would be open to the Gospel message.

Is this a new trend among young evangelicals? I used to think they were mostly very conservative, but now i’m worried. So many that are my age are either apolitical (don’t vote or don’t really care) or they do the whole “i’m personally against it and the church should be” but government shouldn’t." or that “Gods laws shouldn’t have to deal with our laws” I find this attitude kind of sad.

Heb.6: 10 “For God is not so unjust as to overlook your work and the love which you showed for his sake in serving the saints, as you still do.”

Rev.2: 23 “and I will strike her children dead. And all the churches shall know that I am he who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you as your works deserve.”

1 Peter 1: 17 “Now if you invoke as Father him who judges impartially according to each one’s works, conduct yourselves with reverence during the time of your sojourning, “

Your friend with their liberal idea of God’s justice is advocation New Age * choices. "Don’t judge me and I woun’t judge you.}

But abortion is always MURDER!
The Firth Commandment is Thou Shall NOT kill [or support IN ANY WAY] ones who does!

And the friend is correct: same sex unions just ain’t marriage. It’s homosexual unions which too the bible forbids.

Both are Mortal sins; and both cannot be condoned by ANY Christian w/o alos sinning.:eek:

Let your friend KNOW he assumes rights NOT granted by God.:rolleyes:*


#15

Hmm, I don’t think your friend’s ideas are particularly new among young Evangelicals. It’s kind of hard, though, going by a second-hand summary, to know exactly what he’s thinking. It would help if he were here himself.


#16

So we shouldn’t have the government tell us what to do? In that case why do we have any laws at all? They all tell us what to do or not to do. Killing people is wrong whether they are located in or out of the womb. Marriage has serious civilizational consequences and it matters whether and how marriage is supported, or not. The illogic is rather glaring, I think.


#17

I think that non-Catholic Christians often have much more liberal views on such topics as gay marriage, birth control, and pro-choice–that’s been my experience. I know many Christians who support their gay siblings or friends in their identity. I wouldn’t call it a “trend” at all, just a different belief system.


#18

The government “shouldn’t tell people what to do”? 1. The government does tell people what to do–criminal laws, tax laws, traffic laws, For example, murder is against the law, as is driving while drunk and having sex with a minor. According to your friend’s logic it is o.k to to believe that " while I personally think slavery is wrong, the state shouldn’t prohibit slave-holding". There should never have been a Civil War.2, Gay marriage has been universally outlawed in the United States, until very recently. Abortion was outlawed until Roe v. Wade. Did this make the U.S. a medieval state ? 3. Is this an evangelical trend? My guess is that people who call themselves Evangelicals are as divided on these issues as people who call themselves Catholic. The trend is that more people are accepting of gay marriage and abortion because there are more people who do not look to a Church for guidance in morals. They look to the government and the media to tell them what is right and wrong… The Catholic Church has taught the same fundamental truths since the time of the Apostles, no matter how she has been persecuted.


#19

Ask them on what basis our laws are made. By what authority? And if they want to live as isolationists, and they read the Bible, they will see that all authority comes from God. The government tells people what to do all the time, or did your friends miss that somehow? Do they believe paying taxes is wrong, or getting drafted is wrong?

Peace,
Ed


#20

Thanks for the replies. Yes I know this is a common thing even among Catholics. The thing is though my friend is very conservative on these issues but thinks church law shouldn’t have anything to do with government . I mean he even supports gay conversion therapy, yet thinks gay marriage is okay since it is “a contract”. It’s sad because evangelicals have been great allies with us on these issues, but I fear that will change soon.


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.