Do a country’s laws have to reflect natural law in every circumstance?
The church has never taught that civil law should be all encompassing. Here is what St Thomas Aquinas has to say on the matter:
Now is framed for a number of beings, the majority of whom are not perfect in virtue. Wherefore laws do not forbid all vices, from which the virtuous abstain, but only the more grievous , from which it is possible for the majority to abstain; and chiefly those that are to the hurt of others, without the prohibition of which human society could not be maintained: thus human law prohibits murder, theft and such like.
Only things which the majority will be able to follow and for which is needed in a just society.
No, not every little thing needs to have a law on the books directly about it. So there could a thing that is wrong, but not illegal in a certain place, because no one has made a law about it (yet). Sometimes the thing is recently invented and has no law for that reason or perhaps few are going to follow it and it is impossible to enforce justly.
I think having laws on the books that people know about and no one follows can be a bad idea. It trains people not to follow the law. It reduces the effectiveness of other laws in restraining behavior. You want to effectively help society function, so families can do their thing and life go on.
As Catholics we have an obligation to speak our truth in the open. I don’t think we have to bind others to a moral truth of our church that others take issue with. I think with a situation like ABC, our obligation is to attempt to try to change hearts and minds, not tie people up with our moral values.
Yes, they must.
I saw the thread where you and St. Pius X fan discussed this. You’ve already recieved your answer.
I don’t agree with his answer and wanted a second opinion
If they desire Narnia then let them go…
No. Really wouldn’t be feasible, anyway.
I missed that thread. I would be curious to know why you think a countries laws have to reflect natural law in every circumstance?
It wouldn’t work in the case of speed limits, for example. What’s the natural law about highway speeds?
Becuase Natural Law applies at all times everywhere and thus secular law must be in accord with it.
What do tax codes and motor vehicle codes have to do with “natural law”?
So would say that natural law does not include all vices, or would you say that Aquinas was wrong?
It has to be in accord with it in the sense that it cannot require things contrary to it, but as St. Thomas explains earlier in the thread (and elsewhere) and as the whole history of mankind and Catholic civilizations in particular shows, it does not have to punish or forbid every sin–public authority may (and always does) tolerate sins.
Yes, that’s what I mean.
There can’t be anything in civil law contrary to the natural law.
What I mean is that there civil law can’t be contrary to natural law.
There are many civil laws that contradict natural law.
Law is not about morality, it is about order.
Can you give an example?
Should it also be a crime to overeat then? Or to lust after women? Or to dress immodestly?