The sound you hear is my scissors cutting & pasting this into my “keeper” file!
Although we do not know how we will exercise our free will in the future, that does not mean Catholics do not have an assurance of salvation.
For example, one can always have a moral certainty of our state of grace. I can be sure, say, if I were to die RIGHT NOW, I know that I am going to heaven (through purgatory if necessary, although you don’t really need to mention it) or hell, as the case may be.
A practicing Catholic can be certain of his present status — where I would go if I died right this second. But none of us can see the future and tell with certainty that we won’t die in a state of mortal sin years from now. We don’t believe the “Once Saved, Always Saved” tenet held by some Protestants.
However, it sounds like your friends think Catholics believe in “salvation by works.” We don’t. No amount of good deeds can “earn” us a place in heaven – only Jesus’ shed blood does that. The Catholic Church condemned “salvation by works” as the heresy of Pelagianism in the 5th century.
Yes,At the point of earthly death I will find myself at a bar of Justice…St.Peter will be there in front of a huge scale…he then will show ;me my life…all the good things I did…all the bad things also I did…for the frist time I can then see for myself the coming judgement and understand and accept it…I will be shocked,disappointed,happily surprised etc etc at the various happenings as each page of my life is turned…when the final judgement is given I will know it is true and honest and murmur…so be it!!!Do I know the final destination of my immortal soul…of course not…for the final inning has not been played…and as Yogi Berra once defined “the game aint over till its over’…!”
I think it is very similar to the situation of the student who has prepared all semester long working hard and is now taking final exams, especially if the exams are based on a curve where only a certain percentage of students can receive each grade. Anyways, this student has the hope that they will get an A or other top grade. They might even expect it based on their hard work and it is presumed by others that this student will get the A or other top grade. However, can this student really know for sure that they got an A after finishing the exam? There are no guarantees especialyl when the exam is curved and one can get an A with a score of 100 out of 180.
I’m in that situation right now in law school and in fact struggle with pride and arrogance on this which is something I need to work on. I should get As and rank in the top 10 or even 5%, but I might not.
The same I think can apply to Heaven. There is no way to really know whether we are going to Heaven and we must just rely on the mercy of God that we have done God’s will and will be welcomed into Heaven but there are no guarantees no matter how likely one may think it is. However, that shouldn’t scare us as we most importantly know God is merciful and we have the opportunity to be cleansed in Purgatory and be made ready for Heaven. Well I have to get back to preparing for my last two exams.
I really wish that I knew. I did a study of Philippians with a Baptist group using Beta tapes (by the same guy from England who does the Alpha tapes). I was amazed when the teacher on the tapes and the Baptists in the study with me just seemed to flow around and past this statement. I raised the question and they said,“Well you know once you say the sinner’s prayer and take Jesus as your savior, you don’t have to be concerned anymore because Jesus keeps his promise.” I said, well maybe Jesus keeps his promise and doesn’t take back his forgiveness and grace, but you all sure as heck can reject that grace at anytime by sinning. We moved on quickly. :shrug: :shrug:
When I hear people say wants saved always saved I think of the religous leaders and Pharsees of Jesus time. They believed they were more saved and others weren;t. Well I will admit I am a sinner. I hope I fight the good fight finsh the race and keep the faith. God have mercy on me a sinner
If God is so powerful and wonderful why does he allow evil to flourish and why doesn’t he heal amputees?
Please start your own thread for off-topic discussions. Thanks.
I think Catholics think they are damned by their works, not saved by them…Many Protestants think what they do won’t be judged, because they are saved…God doesn’t condemn anyone, we do it by our own actions
I would say Catholics are acting responsibly about heaven, and not behaving like they think sin doesn’t count , so they will get there no matter what they do
Very well said
Your Protestant friend sounds like he subscribes to the doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved. You can “accept Jesus as your personal Saviour” and then immediately go out and live a sinful life and still be guaranteed a spot in Heaven. It’s the extrapolation of the “faith not works” argument - works count for nothing. Forget the MANY passages (including Matt. 25) where we are commanded to live out our faith in love for God and for our fellow human beings.
His hope is a false hope, founded on a false doctrine. Tell him he had better repent, go to confession, and ask for forgiveness for whatever sins he has committed, and resolve to sin no more. I know it’s not popular to say it, but Jesus said no one comes to the Father except through me, and the Catholic Church is the Body of Christ through which we can come to the Father. If he continues to believe in his false doctrine and live his life accordingly, I can tell him where he’s going.
Let me ramble a bit…
That is a nice argument and I agree with it, but I think if heaven is God, hell may be our concupiscent nature.
Is the choice we make before judgement is rendered between hell and God? or is it between what God wants and what we want?
I don’t presume anything. I think we see through a glass darkly and I am still tempted very much to sin and very often, but not only that, I’m tempted to self pity rather than active love. Where is my good fruit? If we were all choosing God and not self, would there not be an abundance of blessings on the earth simply by the dint of the good works of the faithful? If all Christians followed the beatitudes, would there be such misery and so many proclaiming evil as good?
For me, I like the Divine Mercy chaplet, particularly when I have a tough time seeing any good fruit from my life.
I’m very much convinced Christians get convicted by the Holy Spirit and the Church to know the Truth, but also that we see through a glass darkly and have a tough time assesing the damage of sin. Pray every day I tell myself, but my flesh is weak.
Sorry for rambling; I wanted to create food for thought rather than a specific argument.
God bless all.
They choices are ours…the result of unrepentant sins is hell…no one forces us to sin…we decide to do it…that is why it is important to go to confession, and live a good life
The 10 Commandments were given to us to obey, not if we felt like it…they are commands by God to govern our behavior…
If God doesn’t care what we do, why did He issue them? Christ told us to keep the commandments…We only kid ourselves when we think our actions don’t count…there is absolutely nothing in scripture that says we will all go to heaven no matter what we do, or don’t do…
There will be a last judgment when the sheep and the goats will be separated…those on the left side will be told depart from me I never knew you