As Catholics we believe in the seven tradition sacraments (baptism, confirmation, Eucharist, confession, anointing, orders, and matrimony). “Mainline” Protestants believe in only 2 (baptism & “the Lord’s Supper”). Do other Protestants (e.g. Non-Denominational Evangelicals, Baptists, & Fundamentalists) believe in NO sacraments?
Kind of. They believe in two ordinances not sacraments.
What’s the difference, in their view, between a sacrament and an ordinance?
Your going to have to wait until an evangelical or baptist responds, but I believe that they believe that scaraments giving grace is tantamount to earning grace by participation in the sacraments.
I see it the opposite way. A sacrament is something that God does for us, an ordinance is something that we do for God. Thus they blur law and gospel by declaring baptism and the eucharist to be ordinances nor sacraments.
Fair enough, but how is their view of an “ordinance” any different than say a Lutheran’s view of a “sacrament?” Do they just prefer a different terminology to further separate themselves from the Church’s historic understanding?
Lutherans believe that the sacraments are outward elements such as water or bread and wine which combined with a promise from God effects and offers the forgiveness of sins.
I don’t believe that Baptists and Evangelicals believe that sacraments effect the forgiveness of sins.
Makes sense. Thanks.
I’m an Evangelical, and the two main Evangelical churches (one Methodist-based and one from Lutheran roots) which I’ve been involved in both believe baptism and the Lord’s Supper are sacraments in which, as House said, God does something for us, as well as commands which we are to obey. If I had time, I’d dig up and post a statement that’s online from one of tthe churches about sacraments.
Some weeks ago I was on a thread with another Evangelical who I believe is a Baptist (?), and it appeared that he saw sacraments as in House’s first paragraph. I started to discuss that with him, but had too much going on IRL to continue.
So there is wide-spread disagreement within Protestantism as to the nature of “Sacraments” and to whether they ought to be called “Sacraments” or “Ordinances.” Is that correct?
I hope you’re not suggesting by your quotation marks that “Lord’s Supper” is a defective term! It’s straight out of I Corinthians.
I’m suggesting it’s the term they use…
House already answered well.
I’d just add that the Sacraments are the Means of Grace to Lutherans, just as they are to Catholics. Without minimizing the small chasm that exists between Lutherans and Catholics on some theology regarding the sacraments, to many Evangelicals and ND’s, Lutherans and Catholics may as well be identical - as far as they’re concerned, we’re both teaching the same heresy.
The term “evangelical” in terms of referring to a particular grouping of church denominations is extremely broad because one also has evangelical orientated congregations inside a particular denominations in a denomination that would not necessarily consider itself evangelical by it’s nature.
That is in general if you look at the Methodists, Baptists, non-denominational, brethren, Evangelicals, and baptists- the two main ones which they may not consider sacraments but they look highly upon them almost as if they were are: baptism and holy communion in which they believe it to be a symbolic understanding vs literal as we do.
In the churches that are very charismatic by their nature such as the Pentecostals, I would also add the baptism of the holy spirit (aka talking in tongues) and the emphasis on being saved could also be added to this equation.
They believe in 2 ordinances generally baptism and communion
An ordinance is a sacrament without grace.
They don’t believe that God pours out grace during these. Instead they believe it is something done out of obedience as a public display of the faith and grace already given during the conversion experience.
This theology has lead to a crisis of sorts as massive numbers of evangelicals see no need for baptism or the lords supper.
Many go without baptism and the lords supper is given sometimes just a couple times a year.
As has been pointed out there is wide disagreement in Protestantism regarding this.
Churches like Abidewithme’s are more traditional and “Methodist” relying on “methods” of growing in holiness that are not far off from Catholics.
In my experience though as an evangelical free church member and one who has gone to many non denominational type churches, they hold a much looser or nearly non existent theology regarding these things.
Sometimes I felt their core doctrine Was “have a dynamic preacher who could pack the pews, and lots of fun activities”. The rest seemed secondary.
We believe we are commanded to take part in certain things. Call it whatever you want; I prefer the word “command”.
Baptism - We must be Baptized. We believe it’s a public proclamation of Christ’s death and resurrection. We believe that our life changes when we accept Christ and repent, and the proclamation of this is done through Baptism.
Eucharist - The word comes from Jesus “Giving thanks”. Likewise we give thanks and remember Christ’s blood and body poured out for us. And proclaim such until He returns.
Marriage - We believe that when two publically proclaim their love and devotion to each other with at least one witness they are then married. Usually we have such led by a minister.
Confirmation - I don’t really see how this would work? We confirm our Faith at Baptism. Kind of like the thousands that were Baptized in one day by the Apostles.
Confession - It’s huge in Evangelical Church’s, more than Catholics like to believe. We do confess our sins to one another, but we believe God forgives the heart.
Anointing orders - Usually the Pastors lay their hands on others and pray before the Church.
So essentially you’ve explained that Christians are often not obedient. I agree.
I would say this is the exception rather than the rule. If there’s been an evil group of Catholic Priests who strayed away and took advantage of their position; disregarding true doctrine, well that’s an individual problem.
Evangelicals preach Christ. Just because we have more fun doesn’t mean we’re any less right.
I’d rather not have this thread hi-jacked, but the quote in bold is begging the question.
What does confessing your sins look like dronald?
Contrary to what some have said in this post, evangelicals most certainly do believe in 2 sacraments. Some evangelicals call these “ordinances” or “sacerdotal ordinances,” while other evangelicals use “sacrament” and “ordinance” interchangeably.
In his book Living the Spirit Formed Life: Growing in the Ten Principles of Spirit-Filled Discipleship, well-known Pentecostal pastor Jack Hayford writes (p. 41-43):
[The] Church’s concept of a sacrament proposes the participation of two parties: God (the party of the first part) has made a provision, and with specific actions, or deeds, we (the parties of the second part) respond to His provision. God, being the initiating party, has made a deposit of gracious provisions. For our part we, too, make a deposit: our faith to believe and our willing obedience to participate.
For Pentecostals, baptism and living out our baptism has the following meaning:
[LIST]Obedience to Christ[/LIST]
[LIST]Openness to the Holy Spirit[/LIST]
[LIST]Death and burial of the Old Man and Resurrection on a daily basis[/LIST]
[LIST]Circumcision–removal of carnality from our lives[/LIST]
[LIST]Deliverance from bondage[/LIST]
The Lord’s Supper or Holy Communion has the following meaning for us:
[LIST]Celebration of victory[/LIST]
[LIST]Proclamation of redemption[/LIST]
[LIST]Declaration of dependence on Christ, as Jack Hayford writes, “by partaking of the Lord’s Table, we receive transfusions of His holy power, through the pure dynamic of the blood of Jesus Christ–power to conquer sin in any way it seeks to dominate our lives” (p. 61).[/LIST]
[LIST]A time for self-examination. We come to the Table to be forgiven, so we cannot be unforgiving.[/LIST]
[LIST]Provision for healing, per Hayford, “Come to this moment recognizing the full weight and full worth of what Christ has done for you at Calvary. Come and partake of full forgiveness, full deliverance and full healing!” (p. 65).[/LIST]
It first starts at Baptism where one is encouraged to confess their previous sins immediately prior to their Baptism to the entire Church.
After that, every now and then after being told how sinful we are and being convicted of our failures, we are encouraged to go to the front where the Elders can pray for you. It gives you the opportunity to confess your struggles.
Biggest of all are the small groups run by the Church. Like we say, “we’re not one big Church, we’re also hundreds of little ones.” These groups are where we sign confidentiality agreements with those who can hold us accountable. They try to get a good mix of older couples, younger couples, singles, etc. That’s where we confess the most to be healed.