Do Jews believe they will finally SEE G-d in Heaven?


#1

I suppose I should be answering this question rather than asking it. Or else asking it on a Jewish instead of a Catholic Forum. However, I don't think Judaism actually has an answer for this, since the details of the World To Come are not specified in either the Written Law or the Oral Law. So I ask mainly the few Jews on this Forum what they think, and any others who may have information I am not aware of or who just wish to offer their input. The problem with seeing G-d for Jews is that, according to Jewish belief, G-d has no physical form, being only spirit. Perhaps the same issue applies to Christians with regard to G-d the Father, since I believe only G-d the Son (Jesus) is thought to be visible. And Muslims may also wish to express their views on the issue.


#2

I can't say I've ever spent much time thinking about it - part of our (notorious) tradition of being vague on the subject.


#3

Jews will see God --- but not in Heaven and for not too much longer after that.


#4

[quote="1AugustSon7, post:3, topic:280589"]
Jews will see God --- but not in Heaven and for not too much longer after that.

[/quote]

Explain please.


#5

[quote="Armyvet007, post:4, topic:280589"]
Explain please.

[/quote]

Don't even humor him.


#6

[quote="AbideWithMe, post:5, topic:280589"]
Don't even humor him.

[/quote]

I see my assumptions on his meaning weren't completely out there. /sigh I really wish there was a button on my keyboard that would make an "old school" nun with a ruler appear at the front door of such posters.


#7

[quote="1AugustSon7, post:3, topic:280589"]
Jews will see God --- but not in Heaven and for not too much longer after that.

[/quote]

If you're implying they're all going to Hell. I don't think anyone can claim that. Only God knows where Non-Catholics/Non-Christians go when they die.


#8

[quote="1AugustSon7, post:3, topic:280589"]
Jews will see God --- but not in Heaven and for not too much longer after that.

[/quote]

I'm not asking whether you believe Jews will go to Heaven, Hell, or Purgatory; I'm asking whether you know anything about whether Jews believe they will see G-d. Maybe you can weigh in on whether Christians will actually see G-d the Father (in addition to Jesus).


#9

[quote="meltzerboy, post:1, topic:280589"]
G-d has no physical form, being only spirit.

[/quote]

Then Genesis 1:26 would make no sense: "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness".


#10

[quote="Kasama, post:9, topic:280589"]
Then Genesis 1:26 would make no sense: "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness".

[/quote]

Judaism interprets making Man in Our image as meaning that Man is imbued with the good internal emotions of kindness and compassion that come from G-d, as well as the ability to reason. This verse is more often used to demonstrate the Trinitarian nature of G-d, but there is a counterargument to this in Judaism. Acknowledging what Jews believe, even though you may not agree with it, do you have any information on the topic with regard to Christians' (Catholics') seeing G-d the Father in Heaven?


#11

[quote="followingtheway, post:7, topic:280589"]
If you're implying they're all going to Hell. I don't think anyone can claim that. Only God knows where Non-Catholics/Non-Christians go when they die.

[/quote]

The Church knows generally who is going to Heaven and who is going to Hell; otherwise, She would not be qualified to teach what is needed to go to Heaven. A Jew, by general definition and usage, is not a Roman Catholic and is someone who denies Christ; therefore, if a Jew dies in obstinate denial of Christ - and if we have no reason to believe they repented of this - we have no reason to believe such a soul is going to either Purgatory or Heaven, and every reason to believe they are going to Hell.

Further, private revelation from God can inform of the state of a soul or souls: God already knows where all persons will spend the remainder of eternity; likewise, He obviously knows the state of souls presently, whether those souls living on earth or of the dead. There was one seer - I recall from memory here - who had a vision of seeing Martin Luther in Hell, for example. The Fatima children saw many souls burning in Hell. They were instructed to insist on repentance and reparation for sins.


#12

[quote="Kasama, post:9, topic:280589"]
Then Genesis 1:26 would make no sense: "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness".

[/quote]

The Church traditionally understands this as touching upon our spiritual, intellectual (and therefore immortal) souls: therein consists the image (spiritual) and likeness (intellectual); it hasn't to do with our physicality in terms of being corporeal or a union of spirit (soul) and matter. The irrational animals have souls of a sort and are also formed in matter, but they are not said to be in the image or likeness of God; furthermore, they do not have intellectual and immortal souls. The angels, however, do; and are (therefore) also immortal. Saint Thomas' doctrine would be a good and helpful reference on these matters.


#13

Do Jews believe they will see Him? I can't say, as I'm a Catholic...

But I'm certain the Jews WILL see Him and be welcomed as the First Fruits. There are several parables in the New Testament that "might" be there to warn Jews not to get too upset when they see us gentiles being let in... He has choosen to be merciful to us, but He will certainly keep His Covenant with you.

May He Bless you and I'll see you on Judgement Day :)


#14

[quote="1AugustSon7, post:11, topic:280589"]
The Church knows generally who is going to Heaven and who is going to Hell; otherwise, She would not be qualified to teach what is needed to go to Heaven. A Jew, by general definition and usage, is not a Roman Catholic and is someone who denies Christ; therefore, if a Jew dies in obstinate denial of Christ - and if we have no reason to believe they repented of this - we have no reason to believe such a soul is going to either Purgatory or Heaven, and every reason to believe they are going to Hell.

Further, private revelation from God can inform of the state of a soul or souls: God already knows where all persons will spend the remainder of eternity; likewise, He obviously knows the state of souls presently, whether those souls living on earth or of the dead. There was one seer - I recall from memory here - who had a vision of seeing Martin Luther in Hell, for example. The Fatima children saw many souls burning in Hell. They were instructed to insist on repentance and reparation for sins.

[/quote]

Thank you for your view of Church teaching. However, that is not what I'm asking on this thread, so let's try to limit the discussion to the topic at hand without digressing. Is there any Catholic perspective regarding seeing G-d the Father in Heaven?


#15

[quote="Myqyl, post:13, topic:280589"]
Do Jews believe they will see Him? I can't say, as I'm a Catholic...

But I'm certain the Jews WILL see Him and be welcomed as the First Fruits. There are several parables in the New Testament that "might" be there to warn Jews not to get too upset when they see us gentiles being let in... He has choosen to be merciful to us, but He will certainly keep His Covenant with you.

May He Bless you and I'll see you on Judgement Day :)

[/quote]

Judaism does not exclude Gentiles from Heaven. All you need do is follow the laws of morality (Noahide Law). Jews, on the other hand, are bound by all 613 commandments, or really about half of them since the Second Temple was destroyed. So, hopefully, we have a date!


#16

[quote="followingtheway, post:7, topic:280589"]
If you're implying they're all going to Hell. I don't think anyone can claim that. Only God knows where Non-Catholics/Non-Christians go when they die.

[/quote]

I believe the Church teaches we can never know for certain whether anyone will go to Heaven, Catholic or not. Of course, the Church believes Catholics are probably more likely to go to Heaven since they presumably have the advantage of partaking of the Sacraments; but, on the other hand, more is expected of them than others who are not Catholic. The same idea is found in Judaism.


#17

I gave you the Church teaching, which is Christ’s teaching. As St. Augustine said, in speaking of the Church, “Christ preaches Christ.” In the sense that the Church, immitating Her Divine Master, preaches Christ, just as Christ Himself preached Christ: “I Am the Light of the World,” and the like. Whatsoever is - strictly speaking - solely my view (as standing in contrast to the Church’s) would be of no moment.

There certainly is, but I would hessitate to give my opinions without studying first. It would fall under, I suspect, the Beatific Vision. Christ Jesus, for example, is certainly in Heaven with His glorified Body; therefore, He would be perfectly visible. As touching on the other Two Persons of the Most Holy Trinity, I think for at least God the Father, the doctrine of Jesus that he who sees Him has seen also the Father, would in some way apply, and might be the basis of the doctrine; again, I will need to check with the approved theologians and commentators about the doctrine first.


#18

No one can see G-d the Father according to the NT.
**
"he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen."
(1 Tim. 6:15-16)

*"No one has seen G-d (the Father) at any time, the only begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him" *(John:1:18)

However, we are able to see the glory of G-d the Father in the face of Jesus Christ:

For G-d, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of G-d, in the face of Christ Jesus.
(2 Cor.4:6).

The Son of G-d is the express image of the invisible G-d:

** He is the radiance of the glory of G-d and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,** (Heb.1:3).

Now the LORD spoke to Moses face to face. (Ex.33:11).

Now it was the pre-existent Messiah who spoke to Moses. Gen. 19:24 speaks of two who are called by the sacred name: "The LORD rained down fire and brimstone from the LORD out of heaven". **


#19

[quote="mercytruth, post:18, topic:280589"]
No one can see G-d the Father according to the NT.
**
"he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen."
** (1 Tim. 6:15-16)

*"No one has seen G-d (the Father) at any time, the only begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him" *(John:1:18)

However, we are able to see the glory of G-d the Father in the face of Jesus Christ:

For G-d, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of G-d, in the face of Christ Jesus.
(2 Cor.4:6).

The Son of God is express image of the invisible G-d:

** He is the radiance of the glory of G-d and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,** (Heb.1:3).

Now the LORD spoke to Moses face to face. (Ex.33:11).

Now it was the pre-existent Messiah who spoke to Moses. Gen. 19:24 speaks of two who are called by the sacred name: "The LORD rained down fire and brimstone from the LORD out of heaven".

[/quote]

Yes, I remember this verse you cited on another thread, mercytruth. Thank you for your valuable input.


#20

[quote="meltzerboy, post:1, topic:280589"]
I suppose I should be answering this question rather than asking it. Or else asking it on a Jewish instead of a Catholic Forum. However, I don't think Judaism actually has an answer for this, since the details of the World To Come are not specified in either the Written Law or the Oral Law. So I ask mainly the few Jews on this Forum what they think, and any others who may have information I am not aware of or who just wish to offer their input. The problem with seeing G-d for Jews is that, according to Jewish belief, G-d has no physical form, being only spirit. Perhaps the same issue applies to Christians with regard to G-d the Father, since I believe only G-d the Son (Jesus) is thought to be visible. And Muslims may also wish to express their views on the issue.

[/quote]

Hmm....as a Christian, I don't know that I necessarily think of seeing God in a way that I can really comprehend now. I do believe God can condescend to our understanding by using something we know---seeing---to meaningfully, but partially, describe a reality that will be beyond what we are able to grasp in this life. What the actual experience will be like I have no idea. Personally, I most often think of seeing God in Heaven in a way Paul described:"Now we see as through a glass darkly; then we shall see Him face to face. Now we know in part; then we shall know fully, even as we are fully known."

I also think of it as though I sometimes see God out of the corner of my eye now---a fleeting glimpse of Someone breathtakingly beautiful but elusive. Heaven will be seeing Him full on, with us made able to withstand the the weight of the glory of His full-eyed gaze without becoming "undone" as Isaiah described himself in Isaiah 6 . "I saw the Lord high and lifted up, seated on a throne, and the train of His robe filled the temple."


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