Do Mormons Believe This?


#1

A question for Mormons and ex-Mormons:

I found this quote attributed to former prophet Spencer W. Kimball. The statement attributed to him, quoted below, was given many years before he became the prophet, but he was, I believe, at that time, one of the Twelve Mormon “Apostles.”

Is this idea still current among modern-day Mormons? That the Laminites are getting whiter and more delightsome?

SPENCER W. KIMBALL
General Conference Report, October, 1960.
Improvement Era, December 1960, pp. 922-923.
I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today… The day of the Lamanites is nigh. For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised. In this picture of the twenty Lamanite missionaries, fifteen of the twenty were as light as Anglos, five were darker but equally delightsome The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation.

At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl–sixteen–sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents–on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather…These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness. One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated.

(emphasis added is mine)


#2

Nothing shows how diametrically opposed to Christianity and Christian beliefs than quoting a Mormon “Prophet.”

The deafening silence you hear from Zerinus and wussup and rmcmullen speaks VOLUMES on the hooey that comes out of Salt Lake City.

Pray for their conversion.

Pax Christi


#3

Sick isnt it how the Mormon Prophet Spencer Kimball thought of people who were not “white”:frowning: He isnt the only one McConkie had some words to say for years about the “colored people” :mad: and yet…there members just continue to to put their heads in the sand…


#4

Looks like the resident Mormons don’t want to deal with this subject. It must be embarrassing for them. Why, oh why do the Mormons run away from their own doctrine?


#5

When I was a Mormon, I thought these things were being said by stupid old men even though I thought they were prophets. I think most younger Mormons of that time just laughed at these old coots like I did when these kind of statements were made.


#6

originally posted by christianley
When I was a Mormon, I thought these things were being said by stupid old men even though I thought they were prophets. I think most younger Mormons of that time just laughed at these old coots like I did when these kind of statements were made.

I hope you don’t consider the Magisterium “old coots” and “stupid old men” and laugh off what comes from Rome.


#7

Did I ever say that? Are you looking for an argument? Last I knew the folks in the Vatican weren’t making crazy statements about people with dark skins turning white when they became righteous. If the folks in the Vatican start making nutty statements like that I would be ready to class them as such, but I don’t think that is going to happen!


#8

No, you did not say that.
I meant to clarify your position on authority with a comparision of how you felt about the mormon authorities and the Catholic authorities.
I did not mean to offend you (:frowning: ) but if you look at your post again, I’m sure you can see why one might ask my question.


#9

There is authority and then there is authority. When you make crazy statements you forfeit at least some of your authority. If the Pope were suddenly to declare that Italians had to quit using tomato sauce, I think I’d ignore him.


#10

Well, I think you were right to think that about them.

Not that these types of attitudes were uncommon among people of Kimball’s generation. My grandparents were brazenly racist, but otherwise were very nice people. I believe that this was simply a social indoctrination that, thankfully, is passing away.

But, this thing about dark skin being associated with ungodliness… that is what is being expressed in the quote from Dr. Kimball. It appears that this is part and parcel of BoM content, which is just another thing that casts grave doubt on the BoM being what Mormons maintain it to be.


#11

I’m an ex-mormon. I’m 44 years old. When I was young this belief was widely held among the LDS faithful. It slowly changed to the modern view. But, there is still a small group of mostly older LDS that hold this view.


#12

I agree that racism was just a part of being LDS until this last generation. It was clearly there in the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Bible(OT) can certainly be read that way by someone predisposed to racial bigotry. Racism was alive and well in my home as a child, and I was no different than any other Mormon kid on the block.


#13

originally posted by christianley
There is authority and then there is authority. When you make crazy statements you forfeit at least some of your authority. If the Pope were suddenly to declare that Italians had to quit using tomato sauce, I think I’d ignore him.

:rotfl: Fair enough!

BTW, where are our resident mormons to chime in on this discussion?
I know Z was on line earlier today. I think we are being ignored on this topic.


#14

Zerinus is probably trying to figure out a graceful way to answer this without making his religion look any worse than it already does. He may conclude that silence is the better way to go.


#15

Tmaque, I played with Mormon kids too. And they were great kids. LDS doctrine speaks for itself though. No Catholic doctrine has ever promoted bigotry, racism or the like. (That doesn’t mean some of its members didn’t) That indeed was Mormon doctrine.


#16

I remember thinking this as a kid. We had a girl in the exchange program from the Indian tribes in Utah who was fostered in a “good Mormon family” and I believe we all watched her to see if her skin would get lighter. When it didn’t, we thought that she must have some sin that kept her from becoming white and delightsome. This was in the 70’s when the church authorized many many native americans were taken from their families and given to good mormon families during the school year so that they could receive instruction in the Mormon faith.

Steph


#17

He did in fact say this. Was he bigoted? Yep. Did he think anything less of the Indians? Nope. He just thought they would change color. Pretty stupid really. In terms of the Prophet vs. The Pope in its ability to keep its mouth shut, the Papacy learned long ago that silence was golden. Spencer Kimball and Benson were old school and tended to think insularly. It should be noted that it was Kimball who ordered McKonkie to remove his ‘Blacks were fence sitters’ theory from Mormon Doctrine. Yep, there were a lot of stupid things said.


#18

My opinion, a lot of the younger Indians are lighter than their parents. Gasp, I can here the cries of shock. The reason I think this is the case is because the younger Indians spend most the day in school out of the sun, whereas the older indians spent all day out in the sun, and got very suntanned.


#19

Wussup,

What other Mormon doctrine is a result from your “prophet” not being able to keep his mouth shut?

And your opinion on Native American skin color is alarming just for the fact that you thought it through.


#20

It wasn’t only the mouth, but the zipper, too. :wink:

Paul


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