The Catechism looks like it says so. But it’s kind of hard to swallow.
What do you think?
The Catechism looks like it says so. But it’s kind of hard to swallow.
What do you think?
Well, Protestants worship the same God and most of them are off of the truth. Maybe the muslims are 179* off?
No they don’t, it even says so in the Quran itself.
The Muslim “god” is a ****ing pyschopath, and is transcendent above reason and laws. Not to mention Muslims believe everything has been fore ordained by allah, yes even the Holocaust, World War II, etc.
The Mohammedan “god” is a barbarian.
Ostensibly Jews, Christians, and Muslims believe in the same God, i.e. the God of Abraham.
However, both Jews and Muslims deny the divinity of Jesus. Charitably one could argue that we all believe in the one God but that Jews and Muslims simply don’t understand the Trinity.
The God of Abraham is not a psychopath. Its the crazy followers of the murdering butcher Mohammed who are psychopaths.
I covered two posts with these comments.
They must have been very offended!:eek:
Are you saying that people who believe in the teachings of Muhammed are psychopaths?
Be careful, people might take your comments the wrong way.
I haven’t yet met a muslim who is a psychotic butcher. Peace.
Traditionally, those who worship one God with the characterists of the one true God that can be known from reason and looking at the created universe (He is one, all powerful, all perfect, the principal truth and principal cause and Creator) are considered to be worshipping the one true God, albeit through a fog of error. We see this principle in Acts when St. Paul comes across the pagans with the altar to the unknown God–St. Paul said that he is preaching who they are worshipping.
Likewise, philosphers such as Aristotle who came to the reasonable conclusions above were also deemed to have discovered Him.
Muslims are the same way, especially since Islam was derived by corrupting Catholicism–in this way it is classified often as a heresy.
St. Paul (Acts 17:23)“For passing by, and seeing your idols, I found an altar also, on which was written: To the unknown God. What therefore you worship, without knowing it, that I preach to you.”
Pope St. Gregory VII (11th century) to a Muslim prince: ‘AlmightyGod, who wishes that all should be saved and none lost, approves nothing in so much as that after loving Him one should love his fellow man, and that one should not do to others, what one does not want done to oneself. You and we owe this charity to ourselves especially because we believe in and confess one God, admittedly, in a different way, and daily praise and venerate him, the creator of the world and ruler of this world.’
Catechism of Pope St. Pius X : 12 Q. Who are infidels?
A. Infidels are those who have not been baptised and do not believe in Jesus Christ, because they either believe in and worship false gods as idolaters do, or though admitting one true God, they do not believe in the Messiah, neither as already come in the Person of Jesus Christ, nor as to come; for instance, Mohammedans and the like.
Catholic Encyclopedia: As in ecclesiastical language those who by baptism have received faith in Jesus Christ and have pledged Him their fidelity and called the faithful, so the name infidel is given to those who have not been baptized. The term applies not only to all who are ignorant of the true God, such as pagans of various kinds, but also to those who adore Him but do not recognize Jesus Christ, as Jews and Mohammedans.
Also see this chapter on Islam in Hillair Belloc’s "Great Heresies."
Second Vatican Council: The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth, who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God.
You didn’t read my post carefully.
I said it is the crazy ones who are psychopaths and there are many many of them. Who do you think make up most of the world’s terrorists??
The murdering butcher was Mohammed who founded the false and evil religion called Islam.
I am intrigued by this quote. This is the Vatican translation of the text. However, I am not sure whether the English is misleading. The Latin of the typical version seems to give a different impression. The Latin says:
“Ecclesia cum aestimatione quoque Muslimos respicit qui unicum Deum adorant, viventem et subsistentem, misericordem et omnipotentem, Creatorem caeli et terrae, homines allocutum, cuius occultis etiam decretis toto animo se submittere student, sicut Deo se submisit Abraham ad quem fides islamica libenter sese refert. Iesum, quem quidem ut Deum non agnoscunt, ut prophetam tamen venerantur, matremque eius virginalem honorant Mariam et aliquando eam devote etiam invocant.”
Vatican II, Nostra Aetate 3.
It seems to me that the sentence break after “Moslems” in the English has quite a different effect than the Latin, which does not have a break and does not seem to clearly make a statement about what Moslems as such believe; rather the Latin seems to imply a possible subset of Moslems. It seems that it would be closer to the Latin to render the English as “The Church regards with esteem also Moslems who adore the one God, living and subsistent, merciful and omnipotent, Creator of heaven and earth . . .”
This alternate rendering seems not to be a statement about Moslem belief overall, rather to open the possibility that any given Moslem believer might worship the True God.
What do you all think? Is there a difference between the Latin and the English?
Caritas Dei super nos.
When someone believes it’s okay to lie for your faith[/list]
[list]When someone belives it’s okay to kill for your faith.[/list]
[list]When someone believes that the ideal of man is a guy who had sexual relations with a child[/list]
[list]When someone believes that their god commands these as ideals[/list]
I would not class these things as ‘normal’
It’s a triumph of humanity that not all people will follow the evils of Islam to the letter - most aren’t that informed about it - believing they just do the 5 pillars, and that’s about it.
“Allah” is just “God” in Arabic. The majority of the stories of the Quran are very similiar to our Biblical stories. They value Jesus and Abraham.
They’re the same God.
Oh dear! This argument comes up all the time. It’s one that is ill conceived. Here’s why…
Sure Al-lah means ‘god’ in Arabic. If there was a non-Moslem/non-Christian Arabic speaking person who believed in a god that came from another planet they’d use Al-lah as well. Because it is the word ‘god’ in their language.
Likewise just because someone uses the English word ‘god’ doesn’t instantly mean that they believe in the same god I do.
Simply because someone uses the word for God in whatever language does not instantly mean that we’re all talking about the same god.
You need to examine what type of being Moslems worship as their god and compare it to the type of being Christians worship as God and see if they’re the same.
If that’s not enough of an example…
An Englishman, an American and an Australian all talk about how much they like football. They use the SAME WORD but for each the word has a different meaning.
For the Englishman, it’s what we calle Soccer. For the American, its a sport we can also call Gridiron. For the Australian, well even that depends what state he’s from, because football could mean Australian Rules Football, or Rugby League Football (or it could mean Soccer)
Using the same word as each other does not mean we’re talking about the same exact thing.
The Judeo-Christian idea of God differs from that of the Islamic. It’s not just a ‘fog’, Moslems worship a created being who has pretended to be God.
Al-lah supports lying and deceiving people. He’s one who wants obedience, not love.
Try any of these comparisons…
Yes let’s go to Anti-Islamic polemics websites to learn about Islam…
The comparision with football doesn’t really work, since it isn’t as clear a term as ‘God’ is (with a capital ‘G’ that is, if it were with a lower ‘g’ you might have a point). But the point is ‘Allah’ is the Arabic word for ‘God’ and translates directly as thus, and the Qur’an itself identifies the Muslims’ God as being the God of Abraham and the same God as that of Christians and Jews.
It really does become extremely silly when someone starts telling someone else what they worship. If a non-Christian for example came on to this board declaring that Christians don’t worship the God of the Old Testament, of Moses that the Jews worship, would they be taken very seriously? Or would everyone remark at how ridiculous it is someone to tell Christians what it is to be a Christian.
No they are not. Moslems do not “value Jesus.” They view him as a mere prophet, inferior to Mohammed.
Big Difference, Mr Exalt Islam, very big difference.
I got a better idea, Kadaveri, let’s hear it from you what manner of Being you worship.
You criticize someone’s analogy, then give us a definition of this Allah.
What are His attributes? Why does He exist? Let’s hear it from someone who claims we find our information only from anti-Islamic websites.
Well firstly Jesus isn’t considered ‘inferior’ to Muhammad, but regardless, how much do you think Jews value Jesus? They consider him either to be a lying fraud, a lunatic, or deny he ever existed. If you’re going to say Muslims don’t believe in the same God as Christians do because we believe Jesus was a Messenger of God, then what do you say about the Jews’ God?
Well for his attibutes you can check out Islam’s 99 Names of God HERE.
Muslims and Catholics believe in the same God, The God of Abraham - The Creator of the world.
But whether we both worship Him is open for debate.
I don’t believe muslims worship Him because they do not recognise His sacrifice on the cross as atonement for our sins. In fact, they specifically deny Christ as the Son of God (see Qur’an 5:17), and specifically deny His crucifixion (see Qur’an 4:157).
Next time you turn on the news maybe you will.
You Brits, of all people should be very, very afraid of what radical Islam is doing to your country. You do not seem to recognise the danger that you are in from moslem crazies who now have their eye on not just equality, but the imposition of shari’a law on Great Britain. Nonsense you say? Moslems are immigrating and reproducing, you folks are not. Your government disarmed you, moslems have no respect for your gun laws. Live and let live? Live and let die if you are a fundie moslem. “An armed man is a citizen, a disarmed man is a subject.”
Please state what they say that’s wrong.
It’s exactly the same. It matters not one iota if they use a capital at all. But you’ve a novel way of thinking on this ISSUE (there, it’s all in capitals, it must mean something different to issue)
The founder of the Ta’i-ping Rebellion also claimed to worship the same god as Christians, although he argued he was Jesus Christ’s younger brother. People who practice voodoo often have an admixture of Christian beliefs with tribal ones.
Simply by acquiring some elements doesn’t make worshipping the same God.
Jesus himself said
"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Obviously if a man kills people in the name of God, the mere fact he thinks he’s doing it for God means that he’s actually doing the work *of *God
That’s exactly what you’re doing. You’re stating that I worship the same god as they do.