Do Muslims worship the same god as Christians?


#1

They believe in most of the old testament as Jews do, therefore do they believe in the same god? Allah is merely God in Arabic.


#2

No. They do not worship God since Jesus is God and they reject Jesus' s divinity - explicitly - and therefore reject God. There is a portion of the Koran which describes their god as neither begotten nor begetting. Their account of the crucifixion also describes their god as the greatest deceiver of all - and I wonder who that might be?


#3

I agree. My God is Jesus Christ. If one claims they believe in the same God as I do yet reject Jesus Christ as being the true God then we do not worship the same God. I cannot say I worship the same God as Muslims when they flat out reject my God.

Also, just because Allah means God in Arabic does not mean they worship the True God. I can pick up a rock and call it Gott (God in German) and say “well, I worship the same God as you! After all, Gott is just God in German!”


#4

I’m sorry to the other two posters, but the official Catholic Church’s stance is that they do. So, simple answer is yes, they worship the same God, just as Jews still worship the same God. If you reject that Jews worship the same God, then you are worshiping a God that is not Christian, because Christianity was born out of Judaism as the fulfillment of it. So Jews and Christians worship the same God, even if Jews do not recognize Jesus as the Messiah, Son of God, or as one in God Himself. Just because someone doesn’t recognize another person, doesn’t mean the person isn’t who they actually are. If I met one of you on the street and didn’t recognize you, does that mean that you are not you, but in fact only who I think you are? No, and the same goes for God.

Muslims also worship the same God of the Jews, because they worship the God of Abraham, out of which the Muslim faith was born. They may have an incorrect understanding of who God is and what God wants, but that does not detract from the fact that they worship the same one, true God.

If you have a problem with this, then tough, it’s what the Church teaches

[quote=CCC 841 (bolded emphasis mine)]The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.” (330)
[/quote]


#5

with all the violence towards Christians in Muslim countries, I wonder how they worship the same God…and how they have a holy book that encourages violence against infidels. :frowning:


#6

Yes, they do actually. By this logic Jews don’t worship the same God because they don’t accept the divinity of Jesus. The irony in that, is that Jesus, being a Jew, would have worshiped a false god, breaking his own commandments. Hence, Jews necessarily worship the same God. (I got sidetracked)


#7

As I said, it is a mis-recognizing of God and a misunderstanding of what God wants for us, but they do worship the same God.


#8

YES! Yes, yes! :thumbsup: You’re on the right track.

Judaism, Christianiy and Islam are religions that all come from Abraham and all worship the same God!

Although they believe that God is NOT a trinity. They believe that it is “idolitary” to believe in the mystery of the Trinity.

You are half right about “Allah” meaning merely god. Allah means “The One and Only God” and not just any god. But I understand what you mean.

PS: Just for fun, here is the Trinity in Arabic:

God the Father: Allah al-ab

God the Son: Allah al-ibn

God the Holy Spirit: Allah arooh al-kudus

Here is the video where I learned that: youtube.com/watch?v=5fzUCIpHUsM
It also includes typical phrases using “Allah”. God is heavily used in Arabic.

I’ve found that Muslims would never blaspheme. But us Christians say “Oh my God” time :frowning:

I’m trying to learn Arabic. I use Youtube. You should search Youtube for learnarabicwithmaha and find a playlist that suits you.

Maha is a wonderful Arabic teacher (and she’s Christian!) that teaches for free on youtube! :slight_smile:


#9

I think both responses you’ve gotten so far can be reconciled.

  1. Islam derives many of its ideas about God from Judaism and Christianity. They believe that the God they worship is the same God known to Abraham, Moses, and Jesus. It is in that sense that the Church says they worship the same God. They are “aiming” at the God of Abraham.

  2. On the other hand, their understanding of God is highly erroneous, especially from our perspective as Trinitarian Christians. They explicitly reject the divinity of Jesus, even while recognizing him as an important religious figure. So they very much do not offer worship to the Trinity.

It’s as though I have a friend named Fred, and some other people have met Fred but got a very wrong idea about him. If they give general identifying characteristics, I can determine that they are talking about the same Fred, but their description of him will be completely off-base in the light of my greater familiarity with Fred. It’s still true that they really are talking about my friend Fred, but I might very well say “I can’t believe we’re talking about the same guy” just because their picture of Fred is so skewed, even though objectively there’s only one Fred.

Note, also, that saying that Islam esteems the One True God is not the same thing as saying that Islam is salvific. The two are often confused when this question comes up. Judaism most certainly recognizes the true God, since Christianity arose out of Judaism, yet Judaism as such is not salvific. (We recognize that individual Jews and Muslims may be saved in spite of their erroneous beliefs, by God’s mercy in recognition of their invincible ignorance, but we do not teach that other religions, even closely related ones, offer alternative Jesus-free paths to Heaven.)

Usagi


#10

:thumbsup: Thank you for saying the truth without causing a stir.

To the other 2 posters: Your opinions will not change the stances of the Catholic Church. Only the Pope can do that. #reasontobecatholic

We should be thankful for that. Look at Anglicanism, (stances are determined by the people) they’re even approving of gay bishops and gay marriages.


#11

Nonsense.The Jews REJECT Jesus and since he was not around in Old Testament Times, they have since ceased to worship God, who has revealed himself as the Holy Trinity, Jews do not worship him any more. This is as simple as it gets. Three Persons in one God. Reject one Person and you reject all three. The Trinity is not a buffet.


#12

Nice analogy.

Yes, just because they worship the same God as us DOES NOT mean it is also the true religion. The Catholic Church is the true religion.

IMHO we SHOULD acknowledge that we worship the same God (because the CCC does) and it is a great “bridge” between the East and West to keep this in mind and learn about their faith.

There are many misconceptions about Islam and Christianity in the West and in the East respectively. We need to put those misconceptions to rest.

We NEED to be in dialogue with Muslims.

PS: I recommend that each of you posters join a Muslim forum. (They have comparitive religion sections). It would be very beneficial to you.*

*Just bear in mind: DO NOT try to convert people of Muslims (or people of other faiths). They defeats the purpose of you joining a Muslim forum. The objective is to learn about their faith, while they learn about yours at the same time.


#13

I believe they do worship the same God, as the Church acknowledges, for the following reasons.

First, I think there should be noted a difference between worshipping God in Spirit and in truth, being in the grace of the Father or having Him, etc., and worshipping God according to the virtue of religion (which is not a theological virtue, but falls under justice).

St. Thomas defines this virtue in the Summa as “to show reverence to one God under one aspect, namely, as the first principle of the creation and government of things.” newadvent.org/summa/3081.htm

Can Muslims do this? They certainly worship “God” as First Principle and Supreme Governor of all things, but is it the same God we know? Can one acknowledge the one God without acknowledging the Trinity?

First, it needs to be pointed out that faith is required to acknowledge the Trinity. The Trinity cannot be reasoned out, as St. Vincent Ferrer explains:

Therefore, we can know of God, as the Principle of all things, from reason alone, apart from faith, but we can only know of the Trinity with faith since it is a revealed dogma. The First Vatican Council also defined that God can be known from natural reason alone (Dei Filius, Canon 2.1) and St. Paul says, on account of this, those who do not acknowledge God (but worship idols, are atheists, etc.) are without excuse (Rom. 1:20).

Therefore, one can acknowledge the one God and Creator of all things without having faith and acknowledging the Trinity. But do Muslims do this?

How can we say whether or not we are talking about the same thing? It is the essence of the thing that determines what it is. If we acknowledge the same essence, we acknowledge the same thing. What we can say about the essence of God is that it is the same as His existence. This is summed up as “God is” or, in His own words, “I AM” or “I AM who AM.” (Exo. 3:14)

This concept is formally referred to as the “aesity” of God. Essentially, aesity means self-existence. Aesity explains the metaphysical nature of God as a purely self-existent being that exists in complete actuality. God is not a being that is created by another god; neither does God create Himself into existence. Rather, God has always existed as an unchanging, completely actualized being. God has his Being of himself and to himself such that he is absolute being and the very definition of existence (Acts 17:22-28). Since God’s existence is the same as his essence, it follows that God is existence. (Note: this not to assert pantheism. All other beings participate in his existence on a contingency and thus do not possess the essence of God. Therefore, no other being can be said to be a god or share a part in godhead since they exist solely on a contingency.) This concept is at the root of the definition of all of God’s other perfections because if God is absolute being he must logically contain in Himself all perfections of being.

Since God’s essence is existence, if one acknowledges His essence, one can only acknowledge He who exists–it is impossible to acknowledge a completely actualized being that is not the true God. Similarly, there cannot exist two of such beings, because then neither would contain in Himself all perfections of being. The Catholic Encyclopedia article on Essence and Existence gives the Thomist position on this:

-If essence and existence were but one thing, we should be unable to conceive the one without conceiving the other. But we are as a fact able to conceive of essence by itself.
-If there be no real distinction between the two, then the essence is identical with the existence. But in God alone are these identical.
newadvent.org/cathen/05543b.htm

In other words, when essence and existence are but one thing, we cannot conceive of one without conceiving of the other. And this is the case only with God. Therefore, to conceive a being with aesity is to conceive of the one God who exists --it’s impossible to conceive of something where essence and existence are identical, but that is not God.

Since Muslims do conceive of God as being completely self-actualized as far as I can tell (see here for example)–of being non-contingent–as having aesity, then they therefore can only be said to acknowledge the one God who exists and it is to Him that they honor as First Principle and Creator according to the virtue of religion.

I would say therefore that we know God; they know* of *God. We worship Him in Spirit and in Truth and serve Him in supernatural faith, they worship only in a natural way–but they do adore Him, despite their other errors.


#14

Yes, but you should see Usagi’s analogy.


#15

Ever since people freely chose to reject Christ as the son of God, they reject God himself and cease to worship him. That includes the Jews in the present day. The Jews before Jesus worshipped the true God, yes, but they turn away from him today.

Show me a Jew who has never heard of Jesus or the Gospels and I will affirm he worships the true God in ignorance. However, show me the vast majority of Jews who know of the true Messiah that reject him, and they do not worship the true God.


#16

This is a misconception! It is only the fundamentalist Muslims that are violent.

The Quran does not encourage violence against infidels/nonbelievers… unless you are a fundamentalist. The Quran actually CONDEMNS “jihad/holy wars” and forcing others to convert.


#17

The scriptural stance is that neither do.

No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also. [1 John 2:23]

Rejection of the Son is rejection of the Trinity in toto, therefore they are rejecting God. Worshiping a Unitarian God rather than a Trinitarian God is worshiping a different God, because you are denying the makeup of His very Being, and the way the Trinitarian persons interact.

Christ was a fulfillment of the Law and the Prophets, not Judaism (Mt 5:17; Lk 24:44). The Judaism of today is not the Judaism of Jesus’s time, as they deny this fulfillment and do not confess Christ as Messiah.

So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven, but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven. [Matthew 10:32-33]

True “Jews” today are those who worship Christ as their Messiah and Lord. They worship the true God, as Abraham did. As the apostle Paul wrote:

But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. [Romans 9:6-8]

Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith. [Galatians 3:7-9]

Islam was born out of a lie told to a false prophet in the Arabian desert. One might as well say that Mormons worship the same God because they claim to worship the God of Abraham. In fact, the god of Islam claims: Christ is not divine (S. 5:116), was not crucified (S. 4:157), and the Trinity is a damnable lie (S. 5:73). Why would the God of Christianity teach other people complete opposite things? This is contradictory not only to the word of God, but simple logic.

Like it or not, Muslims and the disbelieving Jews of today are not worshiping the same God. This is what the word of God itself says, as well as just plain logic. A person might not like this and may say it’s mean, or repeat “But the pope said…” ad nauseum, but I would invite them to interact with the passages presented here.


#18

Then you are rejecting a truth taught by the One True Church of God, and thereby rejecting the Church. Your intolerance will get you no where. You need to look up what the Church teaches on ignorance. Ignorance of who and what God is would fall under that category.


#19

:doh2:

Note: In this argument, God refers to the Christian understanding of Him, and YHWH refers to the Jewish understanding

  1. Jesus is God, and therefore sinless
  2. One of the Ten Commandments is “Thou shalt have no false gods before me”
  3. Jesus, being sinless, cannot break this commandment.
  4. Jews worship YHWH
  5. Jesus was a Jew (One of the many evidences being that the Last Supper was Passover)
  6. As a Jew, Jesus would worship YHWH
  7. Let us suppose YHWH is NOT God.
  8. This would mean Jesus worshipped a false god, which contradicts point #3
  9. Therefore YHWH must be the same as God, argumentum ad absurdum

#20

I know what the Church of Rome teaches on the matter. I am not a member of that communion and even were I one, I would have a hard time believing that people who explicitly reject God also worship him at the same time.


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