Non-Catholic trinitarian baptisms have the same grace as on performed in the Church. Can non-catholic blessed Holy water/oil bare the same or equivocal “power”? I think that hte non-catholic sacramentals are not technically sacramentals nor do they bare that full grace, however they are still acts of faith and God can still give his grace.
Yes, God can still give His Grace.
If the thing was blessed by an Orthodox priest, it would have the same efficacy (or “power”). However, if the attempted blessing was performed by a protestant minister, the water or oil or whatever else was never blessed and so it is nothing more or less than it was before. The Grace from God would come to the believer through the person’s faith. The water or oil itself would be meaningless.
Non-catholic ‘sacramentals’ (they cannot be sacramentals if there is no saccrament!) do not bear any grace. They also are not properly blessed. They have no value except in the eye of the beholder.
What sacrament is there in say, a rosary?
None unless it’s been blessed by a priest.
Originally Posted by Digitonomy View Post
What sacrament is there in say, a rosary?
None unless it’s been blessed by a priest. \
The Rosary is not one of the seven sacraments and never has been.
They way he’s viewing it, it’s more along simply, is something holds blessings, or is considered sacred in general.
I believe that the *recitation *of the rosary on a set of beads that has not yet been blessed still has value, however.
I draw the lines in certain areas, and this is one of them. If it’s unblessed, it’s merely an object of little value, and in this case, it’s a tool to help you pray, nothing more. We need to show through examples like this to those that are brainwashed into thinking Catholics worship idols, that we clearly do not, and placing any degree of emphasis along an inanimate object as being more then just an object does little for the testimony of our faith.
That said, the crucifix is a good visual for reminding us of Christs sacrifice, the fashion of the rosary reminds me of our Lady, because she calls herself the Lady of the Rosary in her apparition at Fatima, so it can be viewed as a devotional image/object, and that only being a reminder of who is behind it’s formation. If you have one, I do highly recommend getting it blessed regardless, your priest will be happy to do so after mass and it takes very little time for him to do so.
There are non-catholics with valid Sacraments. The Orthodox Churches as well as the Polish National Catholic Church just to name a few.
non-Catholics don’t have sacramentals, and most would abhor the thought that blessing a created object can confer grace on the person who uses it for its intended devotional purpose. Sacramental means just that, an object blessed by a priest who has the power and authority to bless through Christ and confer on the person using the sacramental a share in the grace of Jesus Christ which is mediated through the sacraments of the Church. That is the only way and the normal way sacramental grace is conferred.
The power of the blessing of an object derives from the merits of Jesus Christ through his sacrifice which is the Eucharist, and all the other sacraments whose grace and actions flow from this sacrifice. Non-Catholic Christians deny the sacraments, and deny priestly authority so they therefore deny the very idea of sacramentals. There may be some non-Catholic bodies who mistakenly believe they retain a valid sacramental priesthood, but without the authority upon which that priesthood is based, which they have denied throughout their historical actions, they no longer have the authority therefore they no long can confect sacraments or bless sacramentals.
The Orthodox churches are still an integral part of the Catholic Church. So is the PNCC. However, both are in schism and, although separated, retain a valid sacramental structure.
ByzCAth: Peary is right. Orthodox sacraments and sacramentals are valid because these churches are, in a sense, mystically part of Christ’s body, the Catholic Church - just imperfectly so. The sacraments were entrusted to the Church and must flow from her. Theologically, Orthodox priests are Catholic priests lacking full communion with Rome.
Just a gentle reminder, the thread is about “sacramentals” not “sacraments” I think it’s easy for us to read a post and expect one word, so that’s what we read in our minds–even though it’s not the word that appears.
Please note that Catholic sacramentals do not bear any grace either. Sacraments confer grace, sacramentals do not.
Sacramentals are closely connected to the sacraments of the Catholic Church. Many sacramentals such as holy oils, holy water, blessings, candles, and incense are used in the celebration of the sacraments.
Sacramentals, like the sacraments, are also externals signs through which people *can *receive God’s grace or blessing. However, sacramentals *do not confer *blessings or grace in the same manner as do the sacraments.
If this is what your clarification was all about, then we are on the same page. And I got the above off the same website that you suggested.
the way I’ve understood it, is that sacramentals can be an occasion of God’s grace… this is different from Sacraments, through which His grace actually comes
I believe that Orthodox sacramentals are valid, but if a Protestant minister were to bless something it would not be a sacramental.
In other words, valid sacraments give God’s grace and sacramentals are more of a petition or action done to receive God’s grace?
Why are Orthodox sacraments and sacramentals valid while protestant ones are not? The only valid protestant sacrament is the trinitarian baptism. There marriages count as marriages but why aren’t they sacraments as well?
For a good explanation of Sacramentals, see this link
Why are Orthodox sacraments and sacramentals valid while protestant ones are not?
Because Orthodox priests are validly ordained priests.
The only valid protestant sacrament is the trinitarian baptism. There marriages count as marriages but why aren’t they sacraments as well?
A marriage in a protestant service might or might not be a sacrament. Some (most) protestants will officiate at marriages even if one of the parties is still in a first-marriage; in that case, the marriage can’t be a Sacrament. If everything else is present and “in order” a marriage between 2 baptised Christians is (usually but not always) a sacrament.
Here’s a good explanation from the Roman Ritual
And why are such simple things like the sacramentals so efficacious in the life of grace? Because their efficacy is dependent on the power of the Church’s impetration, and not solely on the devotion of the subject who uses them. We say that the sacraments work “ex opere operato,” that is, in virtue of the outward signs that are posited. On the other hand, we are accustomed to hear that the sacramentals work “ex opere operantis,” which would mean in virtue of the intensity of devotion in those who use them. Yet this is only part of the truth. The thing is cast in an altogether different light when it is stated in full precision, namely, that the sacramentals work “ex opere operantis Ecclesiae,” which means that their efficacy is in first place dependent on the power of the Church’s intercession, and only secondly on the devout dispositions of the subject concerned.