Do Protestant Ministers study the writings of Early Church Fathers???


#1

I attended a Baptist service one Sunday and in the sermon the preacher quoted something ( I can’t remember the quote), but he cited “Early Church Father Augustine”. I left this service very curious about the preacher quoting an early church father since I had been told by protestant friends that the Bible says call no one father.(By the way thanks to my *Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth * book, I can refute that argument by pointing out 1 Cor.4:15!!!)

I had never studied any of the early church fathers, but that Sunday I got on the internet onwww.newadvent.com and started reading about the early church fathers. St. Augustine, St.Ignatius. St.Poylcarp. etc. The writings of these Saints are amazing!!!

I didn’t go back and ask the preacher if he had ever studied the writings of St. Augustine, but it made me want to know where in history do protestant ministers begin their studies??? Do they start at the Reformation or do they go all the way back to the Apostles and the Early Church Fathers (many of the early church fathers were direct students/followers of the Apostles)??

I also am curious to now how many people in that Baptist Church that Sunday realized that their pastor quoted from someone who was totally, unequivocally, 100% Catholic!!!

God Bless All


#2

A lot of Protestants LOVE Augustine because he teaches predestination. They don’t love his teaching that he wouldn’t believe in the authority of Scripture if the Catholic Church didn’t tell him it was so. They don’t love his doctrine of the eucharist. But Augustine is the most convincing proponent of predestination ever.


#3

I know of several “high” Catholic apologists who were former ministers, etc. who ended up coming to the faith BECAUSE they started studying the Church Fathers. They were trying to get back to the original form of worship, to traditional worship, and they found that it was Catholic. How cool is that?


#4

Many Baptist preacher men do study the early Church writtings. They just seem to ignore the parts they do not like. (Sound familiar?)

The protestants even have the Church “Fathers” writtings on CD’s and web sites. The main problem here is that they often “interpret” the writtings for you so you don’t miss-interpret them. (Sounds kinda odd and like a contridiction?)

Some protestant seminaries even have classes on the Church Fathers writtings, they just leave out the books and sections that don’t agree with their theology. (Sounds like the KJV editors?)


#5

[quote=Malachi4U](Sounds like the KJV editors?)
[/quote]

Oh? What did they leave out? (I assume you’re talking about the original translators; if not, feel free to correct my mis-apprehension.)

DaveBj


#6

Watch “The Journey Home” on EWTN. It’s primarily about Protestant Ministers who have become Catholic. I’ve seen over and over again how it was their study of early church history (the Church Fathers) that started their journey into the Catholic Church. Once they start reading early church history, particularly from the Fathers of the Church, they discover that the church was Catholic from the very beginning.


#7

[quote=Chris-WA]Watch “The Journey Home” on EWTN. It’s primarily about Protestant Ministers who have become Catholic. I’ve seen over and over again how it was their study of early church history (the Church Fathers) that started their journey into the Catholic Church. Once they start reading early church history, particularly from the Fathers of the Church, they discover that the church was Catholic from the very beginning.
[/quote]

That was exactly my experience. My thought at the time: “Wow, John’s not even cold in his grave, and the Church is already falling into Catholicism!” :stuck_out_tongue:

Little did I know that after several years I would be falling into the same thing!

DaveBj


#8

When you’re falling, DIVE.


#9

[quote=mercygate]A lot of Protestants LOVE Augustine because he teaches predestination. They don’t love his teaching that he wouldn’t believe in the authority of Scripture if the Catholic Church didn’t tell him it was so. They don’t love his doctrine of the eucharist. But Augustine is the most convincing proponent of predestination ever.
[/quote]

Augustine taught free will also the refromernes conveniently left those teachings out. THe church today teachs predestination and free-will these are high brow concepts to be sure that are easy to botch if Augustutine’s entire teachings are not taken inot context much the same with Saint Paul he teaches Presdestination and free will but the proponents of one view will ignore the others evidence. THe catholic postion with this is (both and) much like its postion on wordks. its faith and works because the Bible teaches faith and works not only faith. That’s another ting the Reformers took out of context with Augustine.


#10

I don’t know about Protestant “ministers” in general, but there are definitely Protestant scholars of the Fathers. The prominent three I own are JND Kelly (Anglican, see his Early Christian Doctrines, and his books on Jerome, and John Chrysostom), Jaroslav Pelikan (Lutheran now Orthodox, see The Christian Tradition series), and Philip Schaff (Presbyterian, see his History of the Christian Church series online). Schaff is definitely the more “anti-Catholic” in my reading, but the others are quite fair. One can read the Fathers as an Anglican, Lutheran, Catholic or Orthodox since one can interpret the Fathers various ways.

Now reading the Fathers as an evangelical or Baptist is more difficult since more conflicts would arise early on (bishops, sacraments, etc). :stuck_out_tongue:

Phil P


#11

[quote=Maccabees]Augustine taught free will also the refromernes conveniently left those teachings out. THe church today teachs predestination and free-will these are high brow concepts to be sure that are easy to botch if Augustutine’s entire teachings are not taken inot context much the same with Saint Paul he teaches Presdestination and free will but the proponents of one view will ignore the others evidence. THe catholic postion with this is (both and) much like its postion on wordks. its faith and works because the Bible teaches faith and works not only faith. That’s another ting the Reformers took out of context with Augustine.
[/quote]

Excellent summary! Thanks, Mac.


#12

Do Protestant Ministers study the writings of Early Church Fathers???

Not enough it seems.:rolleyes:

No matter what they study, EVERYONE is reminded it all started with the ancient babylonion mystery religions or Constatine’s CONVERSION.
I have seen recent books and television series all over the place that are rewritting history to show how LATER church fathers like Luther, Calvin, and all their buddies are the true defenders of the FAITH. A religious brainwashing fest. It always makes me ill.

G K Chesterton said something like “To be deep in history is to cease to be protestant.”


#13

I have heard from some people that William Shakespeare might have had a hand in writing the KJV. Is there any truth in that? If so, then I really can’t imagine anyone taking it seriously. Don’t get me wrong, I love Shakespeare as a playwrite and poet…but the man is simply not a theologian. I think his primary prupose was just to make things sound pretty, which he does an excellent job of doing I might add.


#14

[quote=ContraFool]I have heard from some people that William Shakespeare might have had a hand in writing the KJV. Is there any truth in that? If so, then I really can’t imagine anyone taking it seriously. Don’t get me wrong, I love Shakespeare as a playwrite and poet…but the man is simply not a theologian. I think his primary prupose was just to make things sound pretty, which he does an excellent job of doing I might add.
[/quote]

Umm no. Shakespeare had no role in the KJV only protestant Bible Scholars were there for the translation not linguist. THe beauty of the language owes more to the time the KJV translation than any other factor.

Shakespeare if often accused of being a closet catholic by the way his parents were openly devout catholics before the reformation. For obvious reasons they were not so open later. IF you notice Shakespeare has symphateic catholiuc characters in many of his plays the nobe friar or priest. etc
No one knows for sure but its a popular theory he remained catholic after the reformation as did many other closet catholics.


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