Do the Orthodox believe in Eucharistic Adoration???


#1

Title says it all :D


#2

[quote="Bballer32, post:1, topic:312486"]
Title says it all :D

[/quote]

I'm sure the practice Eucharistic adoration. So do lutherans. I suspect, however, that they may not reserve the sacrament in the way Catholics do, since (I believe) they mix the body and blood together for reception. I'm sure our Orthodox friends will correct me if I'm wrong.

Jon


#3

Short answer: No.


#4

No, we don't. (Just to add an OO voice, since I assume that people here mean EO when they say "Orthodox", but in this we're in agreement... :D)


#5

[quote="dzheremi, post:4, topic:312486"]
No, we don't. (Just to add an OO voice, since I assume that people here mean EO when they say "Orthodox", but in this we're in agreement... :D)

[/quote]

Interesting... why doesn't the EO or OO recognize the practice


#6

What do you mean by 'recognize'? Those who know the Roman Catholic Church (probably more EO than OO, for historical reasons) no doubt recognize this as an RC practice, but don't practice it themselves. As to why that is...I guess we could just as easily ask the Latins why they practice clerical celibacy while we do not. Different traditions develop in different churches, after all. Speaking purely from the point of view of a Coptic Orthodox layperson, the devotion in question is not something we would or should adopt, given the worship that is already presented before the holy Body and Blood of Christ in our liturgy. I don't write that to denigrate the Roman Church at all, but just to say that we already have our own tradition that is evident in the liturgy (special prayers and full prostrations before the Body and Blood), so something else from another church is not really needed. We just don't do it, in the same way that you guys don't recite our fraction prayers in your Masses. You have your own prayers to do. :)

http://orthocath.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/eucharist-in-coptic-church2.jpg

Pictured: Coptic Orthodox believers prostrate before the holy gifts in the liturgy.


#7

That’s a cool picture. It reminded me of what we do during Eucharistic Adoration and i think it’s similar except that the Orthodox only do it before consumption. Adoration seems to allow us to adore Christ for as long as we want (or as long as the priest has it out :D)


#8

[quote="Bballer32, post:5, topic:312486"]
Interesting... why doesn't the EO or OO recognize the practice

[/quote]

I do not think it was a necessary devotion for the East since the Eastern Christian does spend more time in Church than let us the average Catholic. Since the Catholic Mass is far more shorter than any Divine Liturgy (I have been attending Orthodox Coptic services to help the local Coptics to celebrate and theirs is way more longer than the Orthodox Church I attend) adoration was brought up to give the Catholc the extra time he or she needs while spending it with God.

Although the Easterners did not develop Adoration in the past I believe it will be an excellent devotion for all the Orthodox to have. It will be not to difficult for us since the time we can put into Adoration will be only "peanuts" compared to our longer devotional services. I think we can handle the extra time and we can give to our people another devotion to which they can choose. It will be even better these days to have such a devotion for Adoration is an excellent recipe for the busy hectic schedules we are all engaged into.


#9

[quote="Hasire, post:3, topic:312486"]
Short answer: No.

[/quote]

True


#10

[quote="Bballer32, post:5, topic:312486"]
Interesting... why doesn't the EO or OO recognize the practice

[/quote]

I'll answer why we don't do it. Really it's the same reason Byzantine Catholics don't do it. Orthodox don't practice Perpetual Eucharist Adoration because when Jesus gave the gift of the Eucharist He told us what to do. He told us to eat the Eucharist - John 6. Jesus said the Eucharist is for us true food and true drink. Food is beneficial to us of we eat it.

Orthodox believe that the Eucharist is the true Body & Blood of Jesus as is evident in the Pre-Communion Prayers. And our reverence for the Eucharist and make use the way Jesus said to.

I think that Perpetual Adoration isn't what Jesus wanted, but I think that the practice comes from a good place out of love and respect of Our Lord Jesus.

From the writings of the Church Fathers, I don't think Perpetual Adoration or Benediction was practiced back then. When did these practices begin?


#11

The Orthodox do reserve the blessed sacrament for the Liturgy of the presanctified, and to give to the sick, and we do adore the Sacrament during the Divine Liturgy its'elf.

But we don't have semi-liturgical services like benediction or perpetual adoration.


#12

[quote="ComeHome2Rome, post:10, topic:312486"]

From the writings of the Church Fathers, I don't think Perpetual Adoration or Benediction was practiced back then. When did these practices begin?

[/quote]

I'd have to disagree on this point for the reason that early in the years of Ignatius of Antioch, he told his followers to stay with the teachings of the Church and to avoid

"[those who] abstain from the Eucharist...because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ..."*Letter to the Smyrnaeans*6-7 (A.D. 110)]

.

So from here, many of Ignatius' followers who were hermits, gathered the Eucharist from the bishops and took them to the caves and dwellings of solitude that they lived in. They knew that the Eucharist, when not being received must be held to the utmost respect since they knew for sure that it was Christ in the Eucharist.

And so as time went on and monasticism went from mostly solitary to community life, the hermits and monks brought with them practices that developed in the caves. One of these practices, adoring the Eucharist, happened to be one of those new practices. They would carry it in chrismals, and in perulas (bags worn around the neck) to show their devotion to the Eucharist. And as early as 325 (council of Nicea) the development of this practice was used and has shifted over time. St. Basil at one of his Masses (in the 300s) divided the Eucharist into 3 parts: 1 for himself, 1 for the monks, and 1 to be suspended above the altar in a gold dove.

Also, WE are to Adore Christ in the Eucharist the same way that Moses, David, and the Israelites adored God in the Ark. Christ has come forth from the New Ark and is the New Covenant (the Ark contained the 10 commandments, Aaron's rod for the priests, and Mana or the bread from heaven). Christ fulfills all of these, so why not adore him the same way?

God Bless :D


#13

[quote="Bballer32, post:12, topic:312486"]
I'd have to disagree on this point for the reason that early in the years of Ignatius of Antioch, he told his followers to stay with the teachings of the Church and to avoid

.

So from here, many of Ignatius' followers who were hermits, gathered the Eucharist from the bishops and took them to the caves and dwellings of solitude that they lived in. They knew that the Eucharist, when not being received must be held to the utmost respect since they knew for sure that it was Christ in the Eucharist.

And so as time went on and monasticism went from mostly solitary to community life, the hermits and monks brought with them practices that developed in the caves. One of these practices, adoring the Eucharist, happened to be one of those new practices. They would carry it in chrismals, and in perulas (bags worn around the neck) to show their devotion to the Eucharist. And as early as 325 (council of Nicea) the development of this practice was used and has shifted over time. St. Basil at one of his Masses (in the 300s) divided the Eucharist into 3 parts: 1 for himself, 1 for the monks, and 1 to be suspended above the altar in a gold dove.

Also, WE are to Adore Christ in the Eucharist the same way that Moses, David, and the Israelites adored God in the Ark. Christ has come forth from the New Ark and is the New Covenant (the Ark contained the 10 commandments, Aaron's rod for the priests, and Mana or the bread from heaven). Christ fulfills all of these, so why not adore him the same way?

God Bless :D

[/quote]

It is true that Archbishop Fulton Sheen decided to spend a hour a day in Adoration for the whole term of his priesthood. This has reflected into his many teachings and good humor that he had passed on to us. I am one Orthodox who believes that Adoration will be a great help for the Eastern Christian as it is for the Western Christian. I find it very comforting that you can spend time with the Lord without all that liturgical setting. Adoration can be very informal and a devotion than can be easily done. By the way thank you for sharing those acts of the early Christians and saints.


#14

Eucharistic Adoration has simply never developed in the East. The normal practice is that the Eucharist is consumed either during or immediately after the service, though as pointed out there are exceptions, it is always for a specific purpose, after (or during) which it will be consumed.


#15

With all due respect, Bballer32, I would like to ask you directly: Did you started this thread to find out if the Orthodox practice Eucharist Adoration, or to convince them that they should do so upon finding out that they do not? It seems that the answer has been given, so perhaps it is best to accept it as it is, safe in the knowledge that our differing practices are affirmations of our particular traditions, and not necessarily reasons for conflict. In my own church, in the introduction to the fraction prayer, we chant, in response to the priest's elevation of the sacrament, "We worship Your holy body and Your precious blood" (this is while prostrated, as in the picture shown earlier). Why then should we adopt Latin practices that are not what we already do, in order to express this same worship? There is no reason to, just as it would be wrong of us to ask you why you do not adopt our specific practices simply because they are ancient and yet you do not practice them. The various particular churches have long had distinctive liturgical (or, I suppose to keep it in line with the topic of this thread, para-liturgical) practices, without it being seen as something which must be controlled and brought into conformity with the practice of any one of them.

And to address Chimo's most recent post: Are we not with God outside of a strictly liturgical setting when we pray the Horologion/Agpeya in our homes? When we practice night chants in accordance with our traditions? When we pray extemporaneously, or say grace before our meals, or fast, or whatever it is we are doing? I do not take exception to your personal belief that Eucharistic Adoration can help the Eastern Christian (I don't really agree, but that's neither here nor there), but the reasoning for it strikes me as a little strange, honestly.


#16

[quote="dzheremi, post:15, topic:312486"]
With all due respect, Bballer32, I would like to ask you directly: Did you started this thread to find out if the Orthodox practice Eucharist Adoration, or to convince them that they should do so upon finding out that they do not? It seems that the answer has been given, so perhaps it is best to accept it as it is, safe in the knowledge that our differing practices are affirmations of our particular traditions, and not necessarily reasons for conflict. In my own church, in the introduction to the fraction prayer, we chant, in response to the priest's elevation of the sacrament, "We worship Your holy body and Your precious blood" (this is while prostrated, as in the picture shown earlier). Why then should we adopt Latin practices that are not what we already do, in order to express this same worship? There is no reason to, just as it would be wrong of us to ask you why you do not adopt our specific practices simply because they are ancient and yet you do not practice them. The various particular churches have long had distinctive liturgical (or, I suppose to keep it in line with the topic of this thread, para-liturgical) practices, without it being seen as something which must be controlled and brought into conformity with the practice of any one of them.

And to address Chimo's most recent post: Are we not with God outside of a strictly liturgical setting when we pray the Horologion/Agpeya in our homes? When we practice night chants in accordance with our traditions? When we pray extemporaneously, or say grace before our meals, or fast, or whatever it is we are doing? I do not take exception to your personal belief that Eucharistic Adoration can help the Eastern Christian (I don't really agree, but that's neither here nor there), but the reasoning for it strikes me as a little strange, honestly.

[/quote]

I am sure your practices are well accepted by our Lord Jesus and that He can be adored at any place and at any time. I am all for it. I believe this to be true as well. I often prayed the Akathist Hymns composed by St. Romanus the Melodist at my home and at my Orthodox Church. When I am in my Church alone with the Lord who is in the Tabernacle I would often give some time for Him to pray. I tend to clean up after services and because of the time to clean can be long I would do it when no one is around. After cleaning up the Church, I would spend another hour to be with the Lord and I find these times quite illuminating. I spend the time as a Catholic would have when he or she would spend time during their Adoration time. I agree that this devotion is not well known for the Easterner to copy but it is a devotion practiced by millions of Catholics and I am sure the benefits are doing good for any Christian who practices it as does other devotions which we do in our homes or in our Churches.

I am sure the devotional practices of both East and West have their merit to acheive the same sanctity by which our Lord wants to give to us. I am certain with more contacts and with more knowledge of each other we will soon apprecate what each Church does for the welfare of God's people and to help give to us more to digest and reflect on. I personally attend Coptic services for the local Coptics who live in my area use my Orthodox Church as a base for their own Liturgical setting and I have been immensely blessed by attending and worshipping with them. One thing I had learned while attending a Coptic Divine Liturgy is that they have three Epistle readings, one from the Acts, one from Paul and one from the General epistles. Amazing!


#17

[quote="Bballer32, post:12, topic:312486"]
So from here, many of Ignatius' followers who were hermits, gathered the Eucharist from the bishops and took them to the caves and dwellings of solitude that they lived in. They knew that the Eucharist, when not being received must be held to the utmost respect since they knew for sure that it was Christ in the Eucharist.

[/quote]

But they did not take the Eucharist back to their dwellings for perpetual adoration, they took it back (as even laymen did in those times), in order to consume the Eucharist daily.

[quote="Bballer32, post:12, topic:312486"]
And so as time went on and monasticism went from mostly solitary to community life, the hermits and monks brought with them practices that developed in the caves. One of these practices, adoring the Eucharist, happened to be one of those new practices. They would carry it in chrismals, and in perulas (bags worn around the neck) to show their devotion to the Eucharist.

[/quote]

I would like to see some sources about this. The use of special (and reverent) containers for the Eucharist, like pyxides, as far as I know, was for taking the Eucharist for distributing communion to the sick, and is unrelated to the practice perpetual eucharistic adoration.

[quote="Bballer32, post:12, topic:312486"]
And as early as 325 (council of Nicea) the development of this practice was used and has shifted over time. St. Basil at one of his Masses (in the 300s) divided the Eucharist into 3 parts: 1 for himself, 1 for the monks, and 1 to be suspended above the altar in a gold dove.

[/quote]

Along the same lines, the same is true of St. Basil. In his time, the gold dove functioned as a tabernacle, keeping the sacrament in reserve. It has nothing to do with perpetual eucharistic adoration, but only with reserving the sacrament.

[quote="Bballer32, post:12, topic:312486"]
Also, WE are to Adore Christ in the Eucharist the same way that Moses, David, and the Israelites adored God in the Ark. Christ has come forth from the New Ark and is the New Covenant (the Ark contained the 10 commandments, Aaron's rod for the priests, and Mana or the bread from heaven). Christ fulfills all of these, so why not adore him the same way?

[/quote]

We do adore the Eucharist, in the context of a liturgy. But the practice of perpetual adoration is unknown to the East.


#18

[quote="chimo, post:16, topic:312486"]
I am sure your practices are well accepted by our Lord Jesus and that He can be adored at any place and at any time.

[/quote]

Sure, but that kind of misses my point (perhaps I did not express myself clearly; my apologies). When I read about how such-and-such a practice that is not a part of Orthodoxy will help Orthodox Christians, my first question is "help us do what?" I don't mean that in a flippant way -- only to say that I don't see Eucharistic Adoration as anything needed to help us adore the Eucharist. We don't need help to do that. We already do that without adopting foreign practices.

One thing I had learned while attending a Coptic Divine Liturgy is that they have three Epistle readings, one from the Acts, one from Paul and one from the General epistles. Amazing!

How does this differ from the practice of your church?


#19

[quote="dzheremi, post:18, topic:312486"]
How does this differ from the practice of your church?

[/quote]

There is one reading from any of the apostolic books, minus the Apocalypse of John, which is not read publicly, and also minus the Gospels of course, which are read separately during the Gospel reading after the epistle reading.


#20

[quote="Cavaradossi, post:17, topic:312486"]
But they did not take the Eucharist back to their dwellings for perpetual adoration, they took it back (as even laymen did in those times), in order to consume the Eucharist daily.

I would like to see some sources about this. The use of special (and reverent) containers for the Eucharist, like pyxides, as far as I know, was for taking the Eucharist for distributing communion to the sick, and is unrelated to the practice perpetual eucharistic adoration.

Along the same lines, the same is true of St. Basil. In his time, the gold dove functioned as a tabernacle, keeping the sacrament in reserve. It has nothing to do with perpetual eucharistic adoration, but only with reserving the sacrament.

We do adore the Eucharist, in the context of a liturgy. But the practice of perpetual adoration is unknown to the East.

[/quote]

You said precisely what I would have had I not been taking care of my children :)


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