Do u agree with pat madrid's statement?


#1

if any of u have read the earlier post u know that many of us have been discussing protestants and their chances of salvation… my main point has always been that protestants need to come into the catholic church… because they run the risk of going to hell…pat madrid, who at the the time was the vice president of catholic answers debated james white on sola scriptura… at the end of the debate pat madrid said that “many of u run the risk of going to hell because u are not catholic…” my whole point is that this is very very appropriate… that to just make apologetics an intellectual dialogue without letting Protestants know that this is serious is wrong… so serious their salvation may depend on it…if my attitude offended some i apologize but the truth is the truth…and pat madrid was totally correct and i wish more catholic apologists would take similar stands…incidentally catholic answers still sells the debate…i guees my question is to all those nay saysers --father hardon included is do u disagree with pat madrid’s statement …


#2

[quote=marineboy]if any of u have read the earlier post u know that many of us have been discussing protestants and their chances of salvation… my main point has always been that protestants need to come into the catholic church… because they run the risk of going to hell…pat madrid, who at the the time was the vice president of catholic answers debated james white on sola scriptura… at the end of the debate pat madrid said that “many of u run the risk of going to hell because u are not catholic…” my whole point is that this is very very appropriate… that to just make apologetics an intellectual dialogue without letting Protestants know that this is serious is wrong… so serious their salvation may depend on it…if my attitude offended some i apologize but the truth is the truth…and pat madrid was totally correct and i wish more catholic apologists would take similar stands…incidentally catholic answers still sells the debate…i guees my question is to all those nay saysers --father hardon included is do u disagree with pat madrid’s statement …
[/quote]

Pat Madrid said MANY of you run the risk of going to hell. Why do you think he said MANY?Why did he not say ALL?God Bless


#3

ok fine iahve no problem with the word “many” i would say that “all” run the risk, but i am ok with using the word many–again my point is i agree with that approach


#4

Depends on the situation because our goal in discussions with non-Catholics should always be conversion. Sometimes that calls for laying it out bluntly, but sometimes also calls for a gentler approach and the wisdom to know which to use. Some want to insist one approach to the exclusion of another.

That is, one guy wants to be Mr. Ecumenical and never say a pointed thing about a heretical sect. Problem is they usually end up negotiating their way out of everything distinctly Catholic in order to get along.

Another guy wants to be Mr. In-Your-Face-Chip-on-the-Shoulder Catholic screaming fire and brimstone. Problem is we are “fishers of men” and you are not going to lure many fish by jumping up and down in the boat yelling about how the fish better get on board or they are all going to Hell.

We need many various tools in the evagelizing toolbox.

Scott


#5

[quote=marineboy]ok fine iahve no problem with the word “many” i would say that “all” run the risk, but i am ok with using the word many–again my point is i agree with that approach
[/quote]

But all don’t have the knowledge that Our Holy Church is the One founded by Jesus. In fact most have been taught since childhood we worship Mary as if she is a goddess, we worship statues, the pope is the anti christ ect…You have to clarify these myths before they can even hear you. If what some of these people have been taught about Holy Mother Church were true Catholics wouldn’t be Catholics. They are working on fear based in lies and misunderstanding in alot of cases,by no fault of their own I might add.So you need to have some compassion and understanding and set up an amiacable atmosphere or they will not here you regardless.God Bless


#6

[quote=marineboy]if any of u have read the earlier post u know that many of us have been discussing protestants and their chances of salvation… my main point has always been that protestants need to come into the catholic church… because they run the risk of going to hell…pat madrid, who at the the time was the vice president of catholic answers debated james white on sola scriptura… at the end of the debate pat madrid said that “many of u run the risk of going to hell because u are not catholic…” my whole point is that this is very very appropriate… that to just make apologetics an intellectual dialogue without letting Protestants know that this is serious is wrong… so serious their salvation may depend on it…if my attitude offended some i apologize but the truth is the truth…and pat madrid was totally correct and i wish more catholic apologists would take similar stands…incidentally catholic answers still sells the debate…i guees my question is to all those nay saysers --father hardon included is do u disagree with pat madrid’s statement …
[/quote]

He said “many of you run the risk of going to hell because you are not catholic.”

Now, hypothetically, he may have known a lot of the people in the audience very well, and believed, with good reason, that these people now believe that’ the Catholic Church is necessary for salvation, but that they refuse to enter it’, as the Catechism says. If this was the case, and he would have to have good grounds for believing this, then perhaps the statement might have been appropriate. However, I feel that as it was addressed to a general audience, that it obviously would not apply to all and therefore should have been reserved for a private one to one meeting with any of the individuals concerned.

But quite frankly I don’t think it is appropriate in almost all cases (e.g. an appropriate case might be if someone explicitly tells you they know they should become Catholic but they are refusing to do it, and quite frankly I’d leave that sort of comment to a priest) to individually, or as a group accuse people that they might go to hell for this reason. As we have been over and over, who knows what an individual’s state is in this regard.

It is entirely appropriate to state Church truths, i.e, to state what the Church believes, but not to tell someone ‘you run the risk of going to hell’ when you cannot know what that person’s position is in that regard, i.e. ‘refusing to enter it’ (the Catholic Church)


#7

[quote=JGC]He said “many of you run the risk of going to hell because you are not catholic.”
[/quote]

I don’t know of the context in which Mr. Madrid made this statement. It may be that in his line of work he runs into people who have literally hardened their hearts against hearing the truth. That certainly could be culpable ignorance.

He might also have warned lukewarm Catholics that they risk going to hell by not taking their Faith seriously. Jesus warned about hell quite often in the scriptures, and we would do well to take him seriously.

In his book “How to Win the Culture War,” Peter Kreeft makes the point that our enemies are not liberals or protestants or agnostics. We are rather in a spiritual warfare with principalities and powers. A quote:

The theme of spiritual warfare is never absent in Scripture and never absent in the life and writings of a single canonized saint. But it is never present in the religious education of most of my “Catholic” college students. Whenever I speak of it, they are stunned and silent, as if they have suddenly entered another world.


#8

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