Do we need the Eucharist to be saved?


#1

A protestant asked me this in chat after I gave him these quotes;

John 6:51 - I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh."

John 6:52 - The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

John 6:53 - So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;

John 6:54 - he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:55 - For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

John 6:56 - He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

I told him that we don’t need the Eucharist to be saved (was thinking of people outside the visible Church who can be saved etc.), but that it strengthens us spiritually because it unites us to Christ.

Was I right?

Thanks!


#2

[quote=Hermione]A protestant asked me this in chat after I gave him these quotes;

John 6:51 - I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh."

John 6:52 - The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

John 6:53 - So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;

John 6:54 - he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:55 - For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

John 6:56 - He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

I told him that we don’t need the Eucharist to be saved (was thinking of people outside the visible Church who can be saved etc.), but that it strengthens us spiritually because it unites us to Christ.

Was I right?

Thanks!
[/quote]

How much suffering and humiliation would you willingly experience as an imitator of Jesus for while the Eucharist is a beautiful reminder of of shared communal Christian heritage the magnificence is in real flesh and blood existence and the faith to go through it.Jesus first went through it and we follow him,some more and others less according to our Christian life purpose.

feastofsaints.com/perfectjoy.htm

St Francis would have recognised the powerful words of Dionysius in that Christianity is found as much in those things which human nature finds repulsive as with the great creative achievements.The great Johanine Words are not just for consumers of the Eucharist but for the great Christian Way beyond our obligatory attendence at mass.


#3

[quote=Hermione]A protestant asked me this in chat after I gave him these quotes;

I told him that we don’t need the Eucharist to be saved (was thinking of people outside the visible Church who can be saved etc.), but that it strengthens us spiritually because it unites us to Christ.

Was I right?

Thanks!
[/quote]

I think that you may be wrong. The answer lies in verse 54: “Whoever…has eternal life and I will raise Him up…”


#4

[quote=mj330]I think that you may be wrong. The answer lies in verse 54: “Whoever…has eternal life and I will raise Him up…”
[/quote]

The Church teaches that only baptism is required to be “saved”. Hermoine is correct that one does not need the Eucharist for eternal life.

But remember the bible doesn’t teach anything that contradicts the church so what does this mean?

Well first of all to have communion in the Church, you must already be baptized. Second to partake in communion you must be free from mortal sin. So since you have met these two requirements in order to partake in communion, you have the sanctifying grace and therefore have the possibility of salvation.

To take it a step further. Let’s look at the Last Rites. They consist of the following and remember this is for baptized catholics.

Confession
Communion
Anointing of the Sick

So you see one of the last things a person does before he/she dies is eating the flesh. Which fits in perfectly with the biblical verses you supplied. The confession gives them sanctifying grace, and the Blessed Sacrament increases that grace.

So they ate the flesh before dying so that they would have eternal life.

Anyway that’s the way I understand it to be.


#5

[quote=Hermione]A protestant asked me this in chat after I gave him these quotes;

John 6:53 - So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;

I told him that we don’t need the Eucharist to be saved (was thinking of people outside the visible Church who can be saved etc.), but that it strengthens us spiritually because it unites us to Christ.

Was I right?

Thanks!
[/quote]

You are correct only the grace of Baptism is necessary for salvation. You will not find anywhere in the Scriptures or Tradition where John 6:53 is interpreted as meaning If you do not eat the flesh of the son of Man you will be condemned.


#6

If one came to understand the Truth of the John 6 passage and chose to stay outside of the One True Church–the only place His Flesh and Blood is offered-- based on self-interested reasons (like it is easier to worship elsewhere–no Sunday obligation, no confession, no difficult teachings like authority, birth control, etc…) Wouldn’t it be true that the individual was being like the disciples that walked away and therefore walking away from Jesus–truly present in the Eucharist?

One would have to be invincibly ignorant–and it my opinion–that is truly hard to be. Even the Catholic Church requires reception of the Eucharist at least once a year.

God is merciful–but don’t presume.


#7

This excerpt from Aquinas’ Summa may help out:

newadvent.org/summa/407303.htm


#8

Hi Hermione,

The answer is “Yes, we need the Eucharist to be saved”, and as pointed out in the previous post, the Church recognizes this by obliging every Catholic to receive the Eucharist at least once a year.

But “Impossibili nemo tenetur” - no one is obliged to the impossible. If one finds it impossible to receive, or is not cognizant of the obligation, God will not hold it against them.

Verbum


#9

[quote=Hermione]John 6:51 - I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh."

John 6:53 - So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;

John 6:54 - he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

[/quote]

It may be significant that Jesus uses two different formulations here. When He speaks in the positive, about those who will have eternal life, He speaks universally, using terms like “any one” and “he”. When He speaks in the negative, about those who have no life in them, He speaks specifically, using the term “you”.

To me this says that the positive statement is universal. Any one who eats His flesh and drinks His blood (which of course requires faith to discern) will have everlasting life. But He never says that any one who does not eat and drink has no life. He only says to those whom He has revealed the truth, and who then refuse to eat and drink, that they have no life in them. So the negative statement seems to only apply to those who have heard the truth and rejected it, but not to those who have not heard the truth of the Eucharist.


#10

John 6:53 - So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;


#11

I told him that we don’t need the Eucharist to be saved (was thinking of people outside the visible Church who can be saved etc.), but that it strengthens us spiritually because it unites us to Christ.

Was I right?

Thanks!

Yes and no. I would say if you flat out reject the Eucharist with full knowledge and consent you will not be saved.


#12

[quote=Hildebrand]John 6:53 - So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;
[/quote]

But as I said, He does not say, for example “Truly, truly, I say to any one, unless any one eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, that person has no life in him.”

Please read my post again. Christ uses two different formulations, a universal statement (“any one”) for the positive (saying who will have life) but only a specific statement (“you”) for the negative (saying who will not have life).


#13

I get it now…

This difference would allow babies who were baptized, to acquire eternal life, if for some reason they pass away before first communion. Right?


#14

The Eucharist is the normal means by which God puts His divine life within us. This life is salvation. God can save by any means He chooses. But the Eucharist is one of the principal means He has chosen.

Edwin


#15

Exactly.


#16

Hi,

I personally have never meet a Protestant who doesn’t know what the Catholic Church teaches about the Eucharist. They all tell me it is a symbol. That is also what MOST of the Clergy taught at a Catholic Church I went to for 45 years in California.

I wonder what a person has to do to be like the MANY in John 6:66.

John 3:16 John 6:54 talk about eternal life. Why did Jesus treat the Many in John 6:66 the way He did.

The road to destruction is WIDE. Hey! don’t get mad at me, I didn’t write that in the Bible.

John


#17

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