Do we need to believe in the state and the law and patriotism

Inasmuch as we all try to use our reason to in humility evaluate our incredibly limited ability to scheme for the future, I’m inclined to just not believe in society as a means to any end, the large scale collective scheme of civilization. If its all about the next life, do I need to care? Secular authority seems based on violence and hedging on the fear of the future. All that fear and collective hedging will build empires, but whats that got to do with me? In spite of seeing all legislation as futile and corrupt and perverting even its best intentions, must I respect the law as substantial, and because America claims I’m a citizen in its paperwork and culture, do I have a substantial responsibility to respect the secular law enterprise as part of the means to being a good Christian.

At this point, if someone says they have a good idea for a law that will say, protect millions of innocents, I just don’t have faith in it. The logistics are too abstract and mediated for little old me to even consider having an opinion on what you could do by saying something or writing something down and organizing people. I have an opinion on saving the innocent, but a law about it I have nothing but cynicism. The tree can’t bear fruit, and theoretically, the tree might not even “exist” except in the imagination of all the corrupt people playing this game. I’d be inclined to simplify my mind, ignore all the narratives, turn off the news forever. I feel I’m not substantially entitled to anything in this life, let alone civil rights granted by the authorities with the power of violence. Its the passing crown in my opinion, I’m tired of being told to believe in it, it just lets you down. Is this attitude flagrantly an error? Its cynical and misanthropic I suppose, but history seems to be just to prove that you can’t succeed in your good intentions rejecting God, let alone as a society.

I can’t address all your points right now, but here we go: Government, though it may be imperfect and corrupt, provides services that actually promote the common good: law enforcement, schools, roads, for example. You might argue that individuals, families, and neighborhoods could provide all those services, but you might be wrong. The country would likely devolve into ignorance, poverty, illness, and tribal/civil warfare. You are so immersed in society and so dependent on government that, like a fish unaware of the water that it lives in, you do not realize how much your life depends on it.

P.S. Inasmuch as government promotes the common good, particularly lawfulness and peace, Christians and the church should be supportive of it. And I think Paul wrote about this in one or more of his letters.

I’m not so much trying to debate here.

What might be real, is a nation and its laws and its ‘constitution’. If the “constitution” is “substantial”, then I am obligated as a citizen to do more than satisfy the rules of a mafiotic system, Americas failure, the injustice it wreaks across the planet and at home, is everyones failure, is my failure. My perception of the circumvention of democracy by corporate interests is my business, and that would inform my conduct, subtly. I would feel obligated to vote even though I have disgust for all candidates, obligated to be aware of whats going on, and obligated to pierce the veil of media confusion, which seems so hard, and then to have an opinion on this madness and seek to change it as one among many? All without ever mentioning that Jesus Christ IS the Truth, IS the way? Seems hard, seems utterly heartbreaking.

If its just documents and people and chaos and nouns and verbs, then I don’t need to care in that way, I can consider myself just another person in the landscape of a chaotic system that emerged in history, trying to discern Gods will in my little life with less of these presumptions. I can abandon these ideas we’re taught, and just “go with the flow”.

This question is maybe not the root of what is paining me right now. I just need to try to continue to heal. I’d delete the thread if I could, stupid question, vague, my mind is not clear at all. Sorry. Having my fractured expression of anxiety out here on a forum is kind of making it worse. I’m sorry.

I pray for your healing. May the Holy Spirit guide you always toward a life of peace and love.

There was another thread about loving family vs loving strangers, and whether there is an obligation to love family more. I believe that you are obliged to love those nearest to you, and patriotism is one form of that. You are required to love your country because they are your people. I am an American, so I love my country because it is mine and I have an obligation to it (I also love the ideals of America). They are an extension of your own family. That doesn’t mean you support everything that is done in the name of your country, or that you oppose other countries. Just like you don’t oppose everyone outside your family, or always support the evil actions of family members. I don’t love Chinese or European people like I love other Americans.

Yes, we have to believe in Civilization and Laws.
Yes, nations and governments are ordained by God.
Yes, we should love our country insofar as we seek whats best for it and strive to be a good citizen.
No, we don’t have to support everything our nation does. We don’t have to support anything it does.

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