It was a bit more of an obscure reference that scholars interpreted to mean Saint Celestine V.
People choose to go to hell and also where would the devils reside?
Um, can’t agree with you. This would seem to imply that Satan had to fall, in which case he didn’t fully choose it. Good does not necessitate evil.
That is bordering on heresy, or at the least, sowing unnecessary confusion. Hell is eternal, period. There is no “God-trying-to-let-you-out”. Any “Hell” or “pre-taste of Hell” in this life (which is the only time this analogy would fully apply) is only Hell in an analogical sense.
Well, you could define degrees of hot/cold or wetness/dryness as deviations from a given reference point. For example -20°C would be the “opposite” equivalent of +20°C, from a reference point of 0°C, whereas -15°C would not be. This is the only way it makes sense to talk about heat or cold, as they exist in degrees (no pun intended). God does not (He’s infinite); Satan is finite, and therefore not of equivalent units (lack of a better word…). Therefore your analogy doesn’t really stick.
I know what you’re going for, but technically this is akin to dualism. Think Yin and Yang. God allows Hell to exist, but Satan/Hell cannot be equally opposite, or God cannot be all/infinitely powerful, the uncaused cause which sustains all existence, for He would have an equal. So Hell doesn’t exist apart from God’s will, or permission, because all that IS exists because HE permits it. Long story short, if you desire to enter the complete embrace of God’s love (Heaven), then it must be freely chosen, not forced. And for it to be a free choice, you must have an alternate option. And that alternate = separation from God’s love = Hell. He allows us to choose “un-love”.
Hell is the total absence of God.
Ya without God that is what Howard storm in his NDE discovered
Actually, it does. You are ascribing to my post, an equivalency between opposing poles. Never said that, only said that all things are created and exist between opposing poles. Some of those are not equal, but one pole is dominant, or greater than the other. And that could be subjective, e.g. someone so enamored with and dedicated to evil, that Satan to that person would be far greater in that person’s life, than God would.
Opposite do not mean equal.
Edited to say; take light and dark for the human being. The human body needs sunlight for its health, darkness, night, has beneficial effects as to created a climate allowing for healthy sleep, but is not light the more beneficial pole for mankind. Both poles needed, but not necessarily equal.
Akin, okay, I’ll accept that word. As to polar opposites, see my above post to Socrates92.
Don’t know Jesus personally?? Repent and turn away from your mortal sins or you’ll end up here!! Should I not speak the truth?
**Matthew 13:42 **
42 and they will throw them into the furnace of fire, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth
This is fascinating to me because ive never attempted to really speak to or read about god and religion but i have a question, does anyone have a person they knew who had a demonic attachment or one themself?
I had a friend who was involved in the occult for a few years. He went to my old Pentecostal Church who had an exorcism performed on him, and his body levitated in the air as the demon was cast out of him by the power of the Holy Spirit.
If you only believed in the authority God gives us all who walk in faith and holiness, we can do all things through Christ who strengthens us.
I’ve always had a problem with the existence of a place of eternal punishment. The inequity of the punishment (eternal separation from God) with the nature of the offense (temporal and limited in nature, no matter how serious) cannot be rationally explained, I think.
However, perhaps Hell is a place of eternal torment. CS Lewis had the famous line that the door to Hell is locked from the INSIDE. Interesting idea. It doesn’t address the problematic “everlasting” nature of a soul in Hell but still better than the idea of eternal punishment.
What I find interesting though is that a prominent Catholic thinker like Bishop Robert Barron can feel perfectly at ease following Hans Urs Von Balthasar in his belief that YES, we dare hope that all men be saved (in the end). That’s another way of saying that although there may be a Hell, it will eventually be emptied of human souls. Now that is a very intriguing idea. And hopeful.
I also used to have trouble with the idea of temporal sin incurring eternal punishment. Didn’t seem fair somehow. The issue was clarified for me by, of all people, a part-time Protestant pastor who used to work in my office. He explained that, God being infinite in nature as well as infinitely good, any sin against Him is necessarily infinitely evil and rightly incurs infinite punishment. I have no problem with this explication, which appears to me to be both logical and elegant.
The greater concern I have with your post concerns the idea of universal salvation, or apokatastasis. Again, years ago this was an idea to which I, too, was greatly attracted. It seemed to bespeak a true love of and concern for, not just lost souls, but the rebel angels as well, including Lucifer. However, a couple of considerations militate against it. Firstly, it directly contradicts Christ’s own words, particularly when He speaks of Hell and its denizens. It also obviates the need for grace. If we are all going to be saved in the end anyway, what need is there for God’s grace? In fact, what need would there have been for Christ to become man incarnate, suffer and die? To my mind, these considerations completely undermine the whole idea of apokatastasis, and evidently for the Church as well, since the teaching, promulgated primarily by Origen and St Gregory of Nyssa, was condemned at the Council of Constantinople in AD 543.
Hell is most certainly a reality. It is something that I hope to avoid.
This is how i’ve come to understand hell as well. It’s spending eternity without being in the presence of God, and worse, you KNOW you are spending eternity without God.
It is real but you have to actively choose to reject God’s love and mercy all your life and when you die and refuse to be sorry for your sins
Hey, thanks for responding. I’ve heard the explanation you offer before. And eternal punishment/torment in Hell is actually an offense against justice itself, it seems to me (not fairness). If justice is rendering to each one what is due to him, then an eternal punishment can not follow from a finite offense. Stating that the person who has been offended is infinite (while true) does not address the problem of the disproportionate imbalance of the administration of justice in this case. Does that make sense? God can be infinitely offended and infinitely merciful simultaneously. In fact, that is likely the best way to understand it. And if the Scriptures consistently teach anything, it’s that grace overrides justice. Mercy trumps judgment. This is a consistent biblical message.
And, the grace of God is the means by which anyone is saved. To claim that his grace will ultimately win (and save) all does not undermine his grace. At least, I don’t think you’ve connected all the dots to show that it does. Besides which, the Scriptures speak regularly of the universality of God’s love and the extension of his grace: John 3:16, 1 Tim 2:4-6, etc.
Also, I don’t think you’re being realistic about whether this teaching is truly an option for a Catholic. I’m reasonably certain that Bishop Barron and Von Balthasar were aware of the the teachings of the councils. The development of doctrine is a reality of the Church. The Church herself unfolds in her understanding through the ages. Don’t you think?
I agree with some of what you say, but there still remains the problem of the necessity of Christ’s suffering and death. If apokatastasis is a reality, His torments were in vain, and by extension He is NOT the sacrificial Lamb, the Agnus Dei is meaningless gibberish, and the Resurrection, upon which our faith rests, would appear to be a parlor trick, indulged in simply for the Father’s amusement. As for Balthasar and Barron, of course they are aware that what they promulgate was condemned in AD 543. There is such a thing as obstinately persisting in grave error. The tragic example of Dr Hans Küng is ample proof of that. And the fact remains that Christ spoke of Hell and those who will go there. If Hell is empty, our Lord’s words are either mistaken, deliberate lies, or the rantings of a madman. Take your pick.