Do you recieve the holy spirit at baptism?


#1

I was always under the impression that at the time of Baptism you recieved the holy spirit(MT3:16,Acts2:38). But in ACTS 8:16-17 it talks about how they hadn’t recieved the Holy spirit yet because they had only been baptised in the name of Jesus.

Some questions

-Do you recieve the holy spirit at baptism?
-Do you recieve the same holy spirit at the laying on of hands?
-Are both necessary to recieve the holy spirit?
-What is the difference in the way you you recieve the holy spirit at baptism vs. at the laying on of hands (confirmation)?

Thanks for your responses!


#2

If you are looking for a non-Catholic response, the Holy Spirit enters our lives in regenerating power when we exercise faith and walk in the Light. The Holy Spirit, the Light Within, is the Seed of God in each life, He is a Present Guide and Faithful Lover, the Holy Spirit is the Presence of Jesus in our midst who invades our lives with Life. We are baptized into His Body through the Holy Spirit and with cleansing fire.

We may participate in outward signs to celebrate His Presence, but outward signs are not necessary for His ministry or work.


#3

so one would not need to have spoken in toungues? to have the Holy Spirit?

(non catholic view question :slight_smile: )


#4

No. Glossolalia is a practice of those of “Pentacostal” persuasion. Although it has been exibited throughout the history of Christianity in one form or another by many of the “ecstatic sects”.


#5

I haven’t ever been Baptized, but I have receive the Holy Spirit once; it was considerate, unlike many other spirits.


#6

ok so not “required” thanks. Had to goggle that defination :slight_smile: had not heard that. I have heard preachers saying tongues in the middle of sentances, Ive often wondered if it is, or just part of a cadance. Its probably a bad example.

My bro-in-love saw someone say something and someone else interperted, it amazed everyone :slight_smile: And it was a actual language, but I dont think its a common place thing every week.


#7

As a Friend, we do not practice water baptism, we have no problem with those who do, but we seek to know the Eternal, the Light Within “experimentally”, we don’t want to put our trust in the outwards signs, but truly do beleive that the One Baptism spoken of by Paul is by the power of the Holy Spirit…it is the only baptism which truly changes and regenerates the heart and soul of the recipient. For those who require outward signs of baptism with water, we rejoice in their faith as well.


#8

Water is symbolic, Holy Spirit I myself have felt, but I see the purification of the souls through fire as spoken of by John the Baptist in Mathew.

When Christ mentioned the wind and you know not where it came from nor where it goes. He spoke of the gentle holy spirit, and the father being loved in spirit, and that heaven is in spirit, with no desire or pain from lack of having, no wanting of anything anymore; free!


#9

I think that you are filled with the Holy Spirit at the moment of your Faith’s beginning. The reason I say this is that, for instance, Zachariah was told that his son would be filled with the Holy Spirit even before his birth. How could he be baptized in the womb? :shrug:


#10

I just like to use what Christ said and not build to much outside of what he said, for fear of being incorrect. Christ said some are made so in the womb, others later. The miracle of Christ is his connection with the father throughout his existence, even when he clang to his mother’s breast. Why did Christ say beware those nursing children, and in the mouths of babes but kept from wise and prudent men. In the beginning of the sorrows, the birth pains, will we all become aware of our childhood. Was their an implied sensuality in innocent youth that shapes things into the poesy of baby blue being itself erotic. With these memories, will children though maybe adults now, rise and kill their elderly parents? Will the way we saw things as children be seen in that time and completely annihilate out since of maturity and The Holy Spirit be our only hope in flowing between the liquids of life different stages? I than could begin to see clearly why blasphemy against it is truly abominable.


#11

The Catholic belief is that one ordinarily receives the Holy Spirit at baptism. This is ordinary; we acknowledge that there are extraordinary instances when God sees fit to give His Spirit before baptism.

The belief that baptism is symbolic would have been foreign to the early Church.

We believe that although Baptism is ordinarily required for salvation, those “through no fault of their own,” or those in extraordinary circumstances (baptism of desire/baptism of blood) can be saved.

If a person is baptized and has the Holy Spirit, but then commits a grave sin with full knowledge and full consent of the will, we believe that individual is not “in Christ” until they repent.

Once they reestablish their relationship with God, the Holy Spirit resides in them again. Hence, they are in Christ and walking in God’s friendship, and will be saved if they die in a state of sancifying grace.

For a more historical view on baptism…

Infant Baptism

Early Teachings of Infant Baptism (Fathers*)

Baptism Immersion Only

Baptismal Grace (Fathers*)

Born Again in Baptism (Fathers*)

Trinitarian_Baptism (Fathers*)

Necessity of Baptism (Fathers*)

I think the Catholic understanding (on many topics) can best be understood in the context of “ordinary and extraordinary” circumstances, as well as a “both/and approach,” depending on the issue. This of course assumes no contradictions.

For a more scriptural approach see…

scripturecatholic.com/baptism.html

God bless,
JB


#12

The answer biblically is no. The Holy Spirit was not poured out as a baptism until the day of Pentecost according to Acts chapter 2. The Holy Spirit did act before, but in a different manner. Jesus spoke of the holy Spirit baptism in John 7:38-39, John spoke of it in Matthew 3:11, Jesus instructed his followers to wait for it in Luke 24:49.

All through the book of acts people received the holy Spirit. It happened before baptism, right after baptism, many days after baptism, and even after RE-baptism. These truths do not mess well with the doctrine of you receive the Holy Spirit when you believe. This was not uniform in the New Testament church and there was always some external sign that identified the receiver having been filled with the holy Spirit.


#13

The early Church would have strongly disagreed with you that there was no correlation. This included all those responsible for affirming which books were in the New Testament. Did God allow His people to be wrong about this for nearly approx. 1500 yrs? If so what does that say about God? There is not one Bible verse that says baptism is symbolic; rather, there are many which explicitly state that baptism is salvific in nature.

Acts 2:38 - Peter commands them to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ in order to be actually forgiven of sin, not just to partake of a symbolic ritual.

Mark 16:16 - Jesus said “He who believes AND is baptized will be saved.” Jesus says believing is not enough. This is because baptism is salvific, not just symbolic. The Greek text also does not mandate any specific order for belief and baptism, so the verse proves nothing about a “believer’s baptism.”

John 3:3,5 - unless we are “born again” of water and Spirit in baptism, we cannot enter into the kingdom of God. The Greek word for the phrase “born again” is “anothen” which literally means “begotten from above.”

Acts 16:15; 31-33; 18:8; 19:2,5 - these texts present more examples of people learning of Jesus, and then immediately being baptized.

Acts 9:18 - Paul, even though he was directly chosen by Christ and immediately converted to Christianity, still had to be baptized to be forgiven his sin. This is a powerful text which demonstrates the salvific efficacy of water baptism, even for those who decide to give their lives to Christ.

Acts 22:16 - Ananias tells Paul, “arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins,” even though Paul was converted directly by Jesus Christ. This proves that Paul’s acceptance of Jesus as personal Lord and Savior was not enough to be forgiven of his sin and saved. The sacrament of baptism is required.

Rom. 6:4 - in baptism, we actually die with Christ so that we, like Him, might be raised to newness of life. This means that, by virtue of our baptism, our sufferings are not in vain. They are joined to Christ and become efficacious for our salvation.

1 Cor. 6:11 - Paul says they were washed, sanctified, and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, in reference to baptism. The “washing” of baptism gives birth to sanctification and justification, which proves baptism is not just symbolic.

Heb. 10:22 - in baptism, our hearts are sprinkled clean from an evil conscience (again, dealing with the interior of the person) as our bodies are washed with pure water (the waters of baptism). Baptism regenerates us because it removes original sin, sanctifies our souls, and effects our adoption as sons and daughters in Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 3:21 - Peter expressly writes that “corresponding to Noah’s ark, now saves you; not as a removal of dirt from the body, but for a clear conscience. “ Hence, the verse demonstrates that baptism is salvific (it saves us), and deals with the interior life of the person (purifying the conscience, like Heb. 10:22), and not the external life (removing dirt from the body). Many scholars believe the phrase “not as a removal of dirt from the body” is in reference to the Jewish ceremony of circumcision (but, at a minimum, shows that baptism is not about the exterior, but interior life). Baptism is now the “circumcision” of the new Covenant (Col. 2:11-12), but it, unlike the old circumcision, actually saves us, as Noah and his family were saved by water.

Mark 16:16 - Jesus says that he who believes and is baptized will be saved. However, the Church has always taught that baptism is a normative, not an absolute necessity. There are some exceptions to the rule because God is not bound by His sacraments.

Luke 23:43 - the good thief, although not baptized, shows that there is also a baptism by desire, as Jesus says to him that he will be in paradise. It should also be noted that when Jesus uses the word “paradise,” He did not mean heaven. Paradise, from the Hebrew “sheol” meant the realm of the righteous dead. This was the place of the dead who were destined for heaven, but who were captive until the Lord’s resurrection. Hence, the good thief was destined for heaven because of his desire to be with Jesus.

Matt. 20:22-23; Mark 10:38-39; Luke 12:50 - there is also a baptism by blood. Lord says, “I have a baptism to be baptized with” referring to His death. Hence, the Church has always taught that those martyred for the faith may be saved without water baptism (e.g., the Holy Innocents).

scripturecatholic.com/baptism.html

God bless,
JB


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