Do you struggle with same-sex attraction?


#1

Are you Catholic and struggle with same-sex attraction? Can you share your struggles and difficulties in your life because of SSA? Maybe you don’t feel you have difficulties because of SSA - please share that too.

I do not have SSA and I am not a ‘professional’ hoping to change you but I would like to get a perspective and converse about the difficulties you face. I want to understand.

Anyone joining in this thread must be especially sensitive. Please no self-righteousness or condemnations.

I might not always respond to posting but rather just read what you have to say.

Naturally the moderators will be filtering so be sure to use discretion when posting.

Thank you.

Peace,
Contemplative


#2

I do not suffer from SSA, but if you read my post in the thread Homosexuality: Choice? Unchosen condition? Enviornmental? Genetic? What’s your view? (Last time I checked it was the last post in that thread) , you will see that I posted about my best friend who has SSA.

The issue is very personal to me because of my friend. I most certainly do not condone homosexual “marriage”, homosexual acts, and the like, but having a friend who is so close to me going through this, it hits a different note. I think that sometimes we unintentionally lose sight of the fact that even though homosexual acts are a sin, each and every person who struggles with these temptations is a child of God. It is sometimes so easy for Christians to say, “Homosexuals and their acts are so perverse” without ever giving any real consideration to the suffereing, hurt, and lonliness those who suffer from SSA are experiencing in their life-even if they refuse to acknowledge that hurt. Imagine how each one of us would feel if SSA was our cross…

They need to know that what they are doing (Assuming that they are acting on their SSA) is grievious to God, themselves, and society, but instead of simply throwing harsh condemnations, we need to show them the way to a life of chastity and a life in Christ with kindness, gentleness, and love. We can do this by prayer, example, and charitable and Christ like guidance and instruction.

Peace to all,
Katherine Anne


#3

This is understandable.

They need to know that what they are doing (Assuming that they are acting on their SSA) is grievious to God, themselves, and society, but instead of simply throwing harsh condemnations, we need to show them the way to a life of chastity and a life in Christ with kindness, gentleness, and love. We can do this by prayer, example, and charitable and Christ like guidance and instruction.

Your solution seems too simple but it is true.

Don’t you think that SSA have an even greater cross these days with all the permissiveness and changing legal system? Has the Church really kept up with the times to help those faced with SSA? I know there is couragerc.net/ but what are our bishops and priests doing to help reinforce the Church teachings on homosexuals? Are they uniformly reinforcing Church teachings?

In 1997 the USCCB published a document called “Always Our Children” advising parents to take a “wait and see” attitude when their children have questionable friendships. It does not encourage parental rights and responsibilities.

What good are US Catholic efforts if our bishops don’t reinforce Catholic teachings 100%?

What can the struggle be like for those with SSA if the message from the Church is mixed? It really must seem crazy.


#4

Are you Catholic

Not yet.

and struggle with same-sex attraction?

Yes and I HATE it! I’ve been looking into various opinions as to the cause of SSA and find that Moberly’s view to be the most indicative in my case. Moberly’s view is that SSA is the result of a bad relationship with one’s father resulting from either actual or percieved rejection by the father (in the case of the boy). As a result, when the boy approaches puberty, the need for same-sex love and affirmation are not met, yet the needs are still there. Those needs become eroticized and a young man finds himself attracted to members of the same sex, usually ones with certain attributes that he feels he lacks.

Boy I can relate to that! I’m not in therapy, but I’ve taken the time to reflect on my life and when it could have been when I perceived that I was rejected by my father. It’s hard to pin down, but there are incidents that definitely DEMONSTRATE that my manhood was rejected by my dad and, thus, I rejected him as a model of who I would want to be (including masculinity). If you want, I can go into them. Some of them are rather emotional for me because they touch wounds that exist deep in my heart.

So, what did I do? I’d put a band-aid over those hurts by having sex with men. Am I proud of it? Lord, NO! I’m terribly ashamed of what I have done. Do I plan to do it again? No, and I ask for your prayers that God would give me the grace to continue to say “no” (unless you’re one of those who believes that a single homosexual thought is a sign of predestination to damnation…in which case, I would think you should pray that God would enlighten your heart to turn from such heretical thoughts…Calvin was a HERETIC). I understand that it is only by His grace and mercy that I would stay free from sin (any sin, for that matter) and will continue to repent when I do fall.

Now, how do I deal with things now? Well, this past weekend (July 15-18) is a good example. I spent a good part of the weekend at Disneyland (50th Anniversary–and I DID make Mass). I found myself looking at many of the young men there but not in a sexual way. Instead, I found myself studying them…their demeanors, their interactions with their families and such. I also found myself becoming kind of sad…almost as though something I should have and COULD have had is missing. It’s too late for that at any rate. I’m 33 years old and therapy to change is not always successful and it VERY expensive.

I could go on and probably will later.


#5

If it is okay to ask, what does LCMS stand for? I find myself wondering every time I see your name.:o

If you are up for it, I would be interested in hearing a less painful incident with your dad.

Does the Moberly theory mean that for a woman it is the same, rejection by the Father?


#6

If it is okay to ask, what does LCMS stand for? I find myself wondering every time I see your name.

Consider the mystery ended:

Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod

If you are up for it, I would be interested in hearing a less painful incident with your dad.

They’re all pretty painful, but here’s one. When I was in high school, I was a member of Air Force JROTC and was VERY proud of it. My dad, however, had other ideas. See, he was a Marine who fought in 'Nam (discharged before I was born), so my little involvment in this didn’t measure up to his idea of what makes up a REAL man. I was a “toy soldier” to be held in derision for this involvement.

Does the Moberly theory mean that for a woman it is the same, rejection by the Father?

Moberly’s theory is that the issue generally relates to the same-sex parent. So, woman with SSA would have issues relative to perceived rejection by her mother.


#7

[quote=LCMS_No_More]When I was in high school, I was a member of Air Force JROTC and was VERY proud of it. My dad, however, had other ideas.
[/quote]

I know a few people who went to military high school and they were proud of it too, and deservedly so! One was in Detroit area and one in Minneapolis area, both mighty fine schools.

Mystery solved…I should have figured it out, too, as I worked for a Lutheran school (MS) at one time.


#8

Thank you for sharing LCMS_No_More.

I understand your technique of observing percieved healthy famililies. I have used this very technique to watch grandmother/mother/child and mother/child and grandmother/grandchild relationships. By doing so I have picked up a healthier attitude and outlook on those important relationships. Often times the families we are born into don’t provide the healthiest examples. I too was sad when I discovered what I might have missed or was missing. It is normal to mourn for a little while but rather than get hung up on that I have picked up the precious parts of my life and have made them whole only with the Grace of God. Whenever I feel my life ‘breaking apart’ for whatever reason I ask God to make me whole again and He always does. The world can be literally crumbling under our feet yet God can hold us in His hand and keep us whole. Look to God and don’t look away. It is good to learn from the brokeness of the past but it is unhealthy to dwell in the brokeness. God intends for all to be healed of broken minds, bodies and hearts. By allowing God to heal us we become a better place for the Holy Spirit to dwell.

I do hope that you share more…


#9

I am so glad that people have actually begun to respond to this thread. It is nice to be able to relate to others in regards to this issue and to discuss it with others. It means a lot to me.

I love my friend so much. I wish there was something I could do to help my friend…something I could say…

SSA is more than just about the person who suffers with SSA…it affects all of those who are close to them.

I would love to dialauge (sp.?) with any of you in regards to this issue.

LCMS, did you read my post under the thread Homosexuality: Choice? Unchosen condition? Enviornmental? Genetic? What’s your view? ???

Peace to you all. I very much hope that this thread will not turn into a huge debate about SSA. I pray.I would like this to be a share your feelings and experiences thread, not a “That’s wrong, that’s wrong Let’s argue thread” From all four of us who have posted so far, I don’t think this will be an issue…we seem to have compassion and a mutual understanding.

Love,
Katherine Anne


#10

LCMS, did you read my post under the thread Homosexuality: Choice? Unchosen condition? Enviornmental? Genetic? What’s your view? ???

I just did and it agrees with pretty much everything I’ve come across as well. I don’t buy the “I was born this way” argument either…in fact, I never did. I used to just say, “it is what it is” and just lived with it. Like I said, since I’m no longer “self-medicating” with sex, I’m starting to see all kinds of wonderful things about my life that are NOT pleasant or happy things. Some of them are downright depressing.

And the truth is, I DO find myself drawn to men…Moberly’s view is that this is a good and natural drive to associate with and be accepted, loved and affirmed by other men. The key is doing this in nonsexual ways. This is what a lot of Christians, Catholic or not, get confused about. “Loved by other men?” Absolutely! Of course, your mindset determines which of the four possible kinds of love, doesn’t it? I’m talking not about EROS love (physical love) but PHILEO love (filial or brotherly love).

I believe that, in my own experience, those needs weren’t properly met when they should have been and were perverted when I reached puberty. Chances are because a wall came up between the person who I needed that acceptance, love and affirmation from seemed to reject me as a boy. I “defensively detached” from him and never sought out those needs in a healthy way. That’s why I find myself observing men, almost studying them. I don’t know what it’s LIKE to be a self-actualized man.

In fact, interestingly enough, when I was in junior high, my thoughts were always, “I wish I were like so and so” or “what would it be like to be so and so.” That’s what drove my fantasy life. Not having sex with them but being LIKE them. All this went on as I physically developed as a man. I have all the right parts, I’m fairly hairy and I have a man’s voice. But other than that, I don’t identify with that manhood. I remember thinking to myself, why would I want to be a “man?” (Remember, “man” generally means something hurtful to me because of some traumas…I still find that I have a twinge of anxiety when I think about being in a room full of straight men)…I’ll just be a “guy.” Well, that’s what lead me to where I am today.


#11

Yes, I do. I’m a sixteen year old Catholc male, and my predominant erotic and romantic attraction is to other males.

I haven’t acted on it, even remotely, with another person…but have privately in fantasy, masturbation, and pornography…which I regret.

I fully and fervently accept the Church’s teachings and confess sins of lust.

I agree, generally, with LCMS’s assesment about the psychological and emotional origins of it…and am in therapy with an orthodox Catholic therapist and working to change my psyche and emotional and social outlook while I’m still young and have oppurtunities in school and stuff to change my views of masculinity.

Moberly’s view is that SSA is the result of a bad relationship with one’s father resulting from either actual or percieved rejection by the father (in the case of the boy). As a result, when the boy approaches puberty, the need for same-sex love and affirmation are not met, yet the needs are still there. Those needs become eroticized and a young man finds himself attracted to members of the same sex, usually ones with certain attributes that he feels he lacks.

Not just Moberly, but many therapists nowadays…though they are not considered mainline sadly because of a liberal agenda in major psychological organizations.

I generally agree with that explanation, with an alternative, however:

The rejection need not come from the father, but also can come from male peers or a bad portrayal of masculinity and male sexuality in the media and culture percieved by sensitive boys.

I consider myself to have a very good relationship with my father. We are a lot a like, and he certainly never questioned my masculinity or presented a bad image of masculinty.

But as for the boys in school, and the way men and male heterosexuality were portrayed in the (I now realize highly liberal feminist) media on TV and stuff…I certainly did not want to be a part of that! Boys were bad and mischievious and insensitive, and when men desired sex with a woman (though I didnt fully understand what sex was at the time) it was something vulgar and lustful and animal and degrading to the woman, objectifying her. Boys were mean and teasing, and “manly men” on TV were barbaric and slobbish and violent and crude. They were all obsessed with there dumb sports and alcohol and goofing off and having bravado…ugh.

Women and feminity I however idealized, perhaps falling for feminist propaganda, as nuturing, and kind, and victimized by men, and not barbaric or crude, as caring about the emotional aspects of sexuality more than the physical etc…

Well, in this way, I defensively detatched from masculinity and was emotionally eunuched. I had mainly girl friends, didn’t participate in male bonding with peers my own age, and was generally suspicious of males’ motives and attitudes.

Of course, I realize now, I created a false dichotomy. There are good aspects of males, they can be fun, confident, strong, and take the initiative, and the bad ones are often part of a false cultural standard for men. And there are bad qualities of women, they can be ditzy, indecisive, and often just as lustful as men…even if in a more secret way.

People are people, and are always imperfect. Gender is gender, its really quite neutral, though society tries to force unhealthy stereotypes on it. I realize now that to get in a big angsty fit over it is stupid, and to harbor bitter emotions or distorted perceptions is wrong. Sadly, these feelings are deeply engrained in my psyche, and programmed deeply into my brain.


#12

“Moberly’s theory is that the issue generally relates to the same-sex parent. So, woman with SSA would have issues relative to perceived rejection by her mother.”

Sometimes. But lesbian is often caused by the father too. Women can develop SSA not because of a percieved lack of feminine affirmation…but almost out of default because of deep mistrust of men and male love.

I’ve heard it said that the highest cause of male homosexuality is masculine rejection, followed by mistrust of women or an overbearing mother.

But for women it is reversed, mistrust of men is first…followed by feminine rejection.

Of course this makes sense, as feminitity is not an active “achievement”, while masculinity is. That is to say…all babies, male or female…start out by self-identifying with the Mother. Which makes sense as they were attatched for nine months and the mother nurtures the baby. But while the female baby can continue passively identifying with the mother and the feminine…a male baby must actively be “broken away” from the mother and form a gender identification with the father. A female may continue thinking “I am like mother” and other women but a male baby must break away and think “I am like father” and eventually other men, of which father is the primal archetype.

But other than that, I don’t identify with that manhood. I remember thinking to myself, why would I want to be a “man?” (Remember, “man” generally means something hurtful to me because of some traumas…I still find that I have a twinge of anxiety when I think about being in a room full of straight men)…I’ll just be a “guy.” Well, that’s what lead me to where I am today.

Yeah, I understand. “masculine” is still a word with uncomfortable and threatening connotations for me too.

But I’m in therapy, trying to change my attitudes, and most importantly (though success is gradual) I am trying to make confident, but friendly, male friends and become more affirmed in my masculinity.


#13

#14

I am a female and I do not struggle with same-sex attraction. I do, however, know of many guys who have struggled with this and one of them is a relative. I am friends with all of them. They are good guys.

I wanted to write to those few who posted that you do struggle with same-sex attraction that God loves all of us. There are those who do not struggle with same-sex attraction, but do in fact, struggle with opposite-sex attraction to the point that they are unfaithful in marriage (s) and hurt themselves and women, and if they have kids, the kids are hurt too. Some of these who struggle with this are either men or women. God always loves us and wants the best for us, He wants our happiness. He wants the happiness of the one who does or does not have a same-sex attraction, because both of them suffer.

I’ve done quite a bit of reading up on the topic because it is good to be informed with the truth. I have found so much information on this and I have also found that yes, this same-sex attraction, for those who do not want this, there is hope and healing. It is called Reparative Therapy. Basically the psychologist who deals with this says there is no such thing as a homosexual, there is only a heterosexual with a homosexual attraction. One book that is especially good is this one. Reparative Therapy of Male Homosexuality

narth.com/docs/repair.html

The website itself is www.narth.com

One good place they have is: peoplecanchange.com/

I believe that those who have same-sex attraction have this attraction through no desiring of their own and that they are people like anyone else with dignity and respect that is theirs. I offer prayers up for you in this difficulty.


#15

narth.com/docs/repair.html

The website itself is www.narth.com

I have like read so much of that website…I like gobbled ot down! I was sooo excited to find it. I wish they updated more…

Katherine Anne


#16

I wonder why this is all the way near the bottom of the page when all the threads that criticize anyone who has ever had the inkling of a thought of homosexuality are all at the top.

Speaks volumes to me!

People tend to read the two words “objectively disordered” in CCC 2358 and build a whole theology of homosexuality around that only and ignore the message of 2357 all the way through 2359. Instead, people tend to pharisaically put heavier burdens than the Church does by insisting that people try to change from “homo to hetero” and the like.

This seems to be because they misunderstand the PHILOSOPHICAL meaning behind the term (which is what the Church is using) and turn it into a psychological diagnosis. In fact, the Church says that the psychological genesis of SSA remains largely unexplained and that people with SSA are called to CHASTITY. Not expensive and not always successful reparative therapy…simple CHASTITY.

Now, if a person is led by God to pursue therapy, then He will provide the means for it to be done. The Church doesn’t make that requirement and that’s who we should listen to.

Anyway, I just had to say that because sometimes I wonder how many people congratulate themselves in turning out straight and love to throw rocks at people who have SSA and are struggling to do what is right in spite of the temptations in their lives.


#17

I find it interesting that, at least to me, there seems to be a double-standard when it comes to same-sex attraction. It seems to me that most people are more tolerant of female same-sex attraction than male same-sex attraction. Many heterosexual men find female ssa to be a turn-on, whereas male ssa they find repulsive and disgusting.

I also find it interesting that many hereosexuals, both male and female, are fearful of people with ssa. They’re afraid that the person they know with ssa is going to make a pass at them, or try to indoctrinate them in some way, or other nonsense such as that. It’s as if every person with ssa is this evil, deviant person who’s only thoughts are about sex.

Please don’t misunderstand me. I’m not saying that all people are like this. But I have know many gays and have lived in the community (many years ago), and this seemed to be a common perception from people outside the community.

Scout :tiphat:


#18

I believe that the basis for this knee-jerk reaction to SSA is a natural revulsion to something so unnatural and repulsive in it’s act. For me, this simply confirms the natural law [ordering of our sexuality] as implanted by God our Creator.

The pro-gay/homosexual activists prey upon this God given instinctual aversion/revulsion to SSA & gay expression to mount an offensive–negative labelling of “homophobic”, “intolerant”, “insensitive”, “un-Christian”, “judgmental”, … Their goal is to keep advocates of traditional family/moral values on the defensive and seek to culturally normalize/mainstream and mute/neutralize any voices of objection. This becomes a real distraction and diversion to offering true compassion, understanding and acceptance of someone afflicted/struggling with the disorder of SSA.


#19

[quote=felra]I believe that the basis for this knee-jerk reaction to SSA is a natural revulsion to something so unnatural and repulsive in it’s act. For me, this simply confirms the natural law [ordering of our sexuality] as implanted by God our Creator.

The pro-gay/homosexual activists prey upon this God given instinctual aversion/revulsion to SSA & gay expression to mount an offensive–negative labelling of “homophobic”, “intolerant”, “insensitive”, “un-Christian”, “judgmental”, … Their goal is to keep advocates of traditional family/moral values on the defensive and seek to culturally normalize/mainstream and mute/neutralize any voices of objection. This becomes a real distraction and diversion to offering true compassion, understanding and acceptance of someone afflicted/struggling with the disorder of SSA.
[/quote]

I think most Christians are homophobic, whether they admit it or not. When one uses words like “revulsion”, “prey” and “repulsive”, it doesn’t seem to send up signals of love and compassion for the individuals struggling with SSA.

Scout :tiphat:


#20

No,

And I do find it repulsive and difficult to understand it. Seeing two of the same sex either males or females interact in any way makes me cringe.

My niece has a relationship that is breaking up and in many ways I am happy that it did not work out even though the girl she was with was a very nice person. I always felt uncomfortable seeing them together. If she is really gay I suppose she may get another female partner who may be even worse for her…

I suppose I am homophobic. But I have no animosity towards folks with SSA. It is not a life style that I agree with nor one that I would encourage. It’s not my place to make any judgements and I don’t condemn anyone.

That’s between them and God. I hope God does not judge them too harsely. I believe the Church’s position that homosexual behavior is sinful is the proper interpretation of God’s laws. However, I think gays will have a very difficult if not impossible road to follow.

Being married, I would find it just about impossible to sustain a relationship in a platonic mode especially in the first few years… Although after 31 years, my wife now thinks we are often in that mode anyway. :rotfl: IF we had to abide by this during our first few years of marriage it would have been impossible.

There is an old truism, if you take a jar and put in a bean for every time you have sex during the first year of marriage, and then took one out every time it happens after the first year. At the end of your life time the jar will still not be empty.

wc


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