Do you support Israel or Palestine?


#122

He didn’t say let your neighbor rain rockets down on civilians and do nothing about it either though did he


#123

Yeah those poor natives. Definitely should have let them continue their human sacrifices instead of civilizing them.


#124

I support the right of Israel to exist, but I do not support some of their punitive military actions on the Palestinian general population, (I also don’t support Palestinian violence against innocents nor do I approve of the hostility toward Jews in general in many parts of the world). In essence, both sides need to see each others as neighbors and not enemies. Both the Jewish and Arab populations have lived there for a long time and both should be allowed to live in peace. Let past wars be put in the past. Stop the cycles of violence.


#125

your saying God broke his promise to abram?

Genesis 13
14 After Lot had departed, the Lord said to Abram, “Look from the place where you stand to the north, south, east, and west. 15 I will give all the land that you see to you and your descendants forever.


#126

What does ‘support Israel’ or ‘support Palestine’ even mean? If you believe the state of Israel has a right to exist in safety, security and peace, I assume that translates to ‘support Israel’?


#127

Millions of native American Indians died at the hands of European invaders. Millions of African slaves were exploited in America. Who is going to civilize these new Americans?


#128

I do believe both those practices have ended


#129

Well unfortunately it’s not, and it’s a grave fallacy to judge the morality of any particular side by their kill count IMO.

Thank you for reading.


#130

Whether we like it or not at the end of the day it’s all about military power. Whoever has it controls the land.
We can debate to death about legitimacy and history but in reality it doesn’t matter much except to provide some plausible explanation for the people.
No one on this earth can claim to be inhabitants from the beginning of humans. No amount of justifications will go against the ultimate determinant — military power.
Now of course it is still important to dress it up as a cause for political leverage and gains and mobilise the people to increase military power that way but the sad reality is whoever has might wins, not whoever has rights, logic, morals or treaties.

Sorry a bit pessimistic but would be glad to hear anyone’s opinion on this to see whether I’ve missed something in my reasoning.


#131

You’ve basically made the same argument I’ve been making, which some people don’t want to hear. Ideally everything would have a peaceful solution.

In reality, there is no peace until one side in an armed conflict has been utterly defeated integrated into the new dominant society. If 2 opposing cultures/ideologies are existing in close proximity and have a history of bad blood, violence will continue to resurface. Reality isn’t pretty.


#132

Even today American native Indians and Africans still suffer injustice in poverty.

Poverty by Race/Ethnicity

Areas with a high incidence of poverty often reflect the low income of their racial/ethnic minorities. Nonmetro blacks and African Americans had the highest incidence of poverty in 2016 (33.0 percent), while nonmetro American Indians and Alaskan natives had the second highest rate (31.8 percent). The poverty rate for nonmetro whites in 2016 was less than half as much (14.6 percent) of both groups.
https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/rural-economy-population/rural-poverty-well-being/poverty-demographics.aspx


#133

And this is somehow related to the debate in what way exactly?


#134

People are surprised they have more casualties when they take brainwashed and ill equipped idiots against a professional army?

I see many fall well into the camp of brainwashed by the media. Many people who I’ve had to scrape of the sidewalk have been Palestinian Christians and children butchered by their own side or used as human shields by the PA.

Do spare me your ‘two state solution’, it’s merely a precursor for yet more Jewish suppression.

Muslims always profess ‘peace’ in stage 1 Jihad. They are far beyond that point and if it wasn’t for treaties helping us maintain Iron Dome and David’s Sling, you wouldn’t even have a Holy Land to visit.


#135

That’s not true. Neither Protestants nor Catholics have been utterly defeated or integrated one into the other and yet today there is peace between the two groups.


#136

I don’t know. Perhaps you can tell us.


#137

That’s because their respective societies have largely secularized to the point where religion is largely irrelevant. Each nation already had its own land. It’s not 2 opposed groups fighting for the same land.

Eta: also, they slaughtered each other for a few hundred years until neither had much fight left in them over that particular issue.


#138

Hilarious, protesting suppression or bigotry regarding one people whilst making sweeping statements about another and arguing ‘they’ can never change and can be summed up neatly forever in a few words.


#139

I honestly think a Christian state would be better.


#140

Agreed. Now we just need to get Francis to call for a crusade to reclaim the land. It can be the start of a new papal state :grimacing:


#141

You mean relocating the Papacy to Jerusalem? That seems heretical. Or did you mean the Pope ruling over the holy land from Rome which I am all in favor of?


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