Do you think God is upset with the Catholic Church?


#1

I was reading John 17 the other day and Jesus’ beautiful prayer for unity. It made me wonder what God thinks of the Catholic Church in terms of this unity, and if He is ticked off that we have not been able to sustain the unity of the Church He established - both for those who call themselves Catholic and for the thousands of denominations that have splintered from His Church. It seems we have failed Him in this regard in many ways, despite our best efforts. Any thoughts?


#2

No, not with the Church as a whole. But rather with the individual Christians themselves who sow the seeds of disunity, schism, and heresy.


#3

[quote=Elzee]I was reading John 17 the other day and Jesus’ beautiful prayer for unity. It made me wonder what God thinks of the Catholic Church in terms of this unity, and if He is ticked off that we have not been able to sustain the unity of the Church He established - both for those who call themselves Catholic and for the thousands of denominations that have splintered from His Church. It seems we have failed Him in this regard in many ways, despite our best efforts. Any thoughts?
[/quote]

No I don’t know he knew we wouldn’t be able to keep the unity. Not forever anyway… I think God has a plan for this whole mess we have created. He likes cleaning up after us… He likes working with imperfections.


#4

Yes, I think it is a beautiful prayer and yearn that we could live as our Lord would have us. However, I’m not so sure in what way, if at all, it can be said that unity existed between Jesus and His Apostles and disciples.

Because of such division and contention among Christians, as well as the human family, I tend to think more in terms of the “humiliation” of the Lord, as when He was crucified.

Is there a “righteous anger” of God? I believe there is. Some believe that this is God’s usual response to us in our sin. I do not. I believe the Lord’s more usual response is that despite being defamed, dishonored, and humiliated, He acts in mercy, forgiveness, and complete love.:slight_smile:


#5

Well if you look at it this way,
John 17 is like a prophecy that the times we are living in are happening.
Christ, as God and knowing ALL things, would have wanted His words on this matter placed in Scripture.
I wonder what the Protestants of 300-500 years ago thought about John 17? And for that matter the early Church, since there were attempts of dissention and schism back them.


#6

[quote=Hildebrand]No, not with the Church as a whole. But rather with the individual Christians themselves who sow the seeds of disunity, schism, and heresy.

[/quote]

I’d say this about sums it up…
I agree.


#7

No, because God does not get upset. He is perfect.
We get upset. We are not perfect.
No, because God does not get offended. He is perfect charity.
We are not perfect charity, therefore we get offended.
No, because God does not get lonely. He is perfect and complete.
We get lonely, because we are not perfect.
God is perfect because He is God.
We are not perfect because we are human.
No, because God does not think, act or feel like us.
No, because God is God and we are His Church.


#8

[quote=iwonder]No, because God does not get upset. He is perfect.
We get upset. We are not perfect.
No, because God does not get offended. He is perfect charity.
We are not perfect charity, therefore we get offended.
No, because God does not get lonely. He is perfect and complete.
We get lonely, because we are not perfect.
God is perfect because He is God.
We are not perfect because we are human.
No, because God does not think, act or feel like us.
No, because God is God and we are His Church.
[/quote]

The Bible is full of acconts of God getting very upset with His people. Of course He is patient & loving & quick to forgive - but let’s not forget that when His people continue to disobey and turn their backs on Him despite His efforts to turn them around - well read the Old Testement - it’s not pretty.


#9

[quote=Elzee]I was reading John 17 the other day and Jesus’ beautiful prayer for unity. It made me wonder what God thinks of the Catholic Church in terms of this unity, and if He is ticked off that we have not been able to sustain the unity of the Church He established - both for those who call themselves Catholic and for the thousands of denominations that have splintered from His Church. It seems we have failed Him in this regard in many ways, despite our best efforts. Any thoughts?
[/quote]

Elzee,

**Very interesting. Just think about it this way: What more can the Catholic Church do to bring those people back? The Catholic Church is the most ecumenical religious body. They even changed the liturgy around a little to make it easier for people. The Pope even broke the record of world travel, and even was the first Pope to visit mosques, synogogues, budhist monestaries, Eastern Orthodox mass, and even welcomed and met with Billy Graham and other Protestants. It’s those communities and individuals who are not reaching back. They all have the attitude “I’m not going to hell for not trying to be united with Rome.” And the Anglicans have always looked for ways to avoid Rome. Now a lot are supporting Liberation Theology. Don’t even mention the Eastern Orthodox, they put no emphasis on the Primacy of Peter and don’t want to conform to it. **

Here’s another question: What more could Jesus have done to keep his desciples faithful, loyal, and trustworthy? Look at what happened with Judas after the Last Supper. It’s temptation working through zeal and pride to cause these people to use their free will to reject the truth.


#10

[quote=Elzee]I was reading John 17 the other day and Jesus’ beautiful prayer for unity. It made me wonder what God thinks of the Catholic Church in terms of this unity, and if He is ticked off that we have not been able to sustain the unity of the Church He established - both for those who call themselves Catholic and for the thousands of denominations that have splintered from His Church. It seems we have failed Him in this regard in many ways, despite our best efforts. Any thoughts?
[/quote]

The Church is not unified because the devil has worked hard to divide Christ’s Church with attractive lures like “OSAS”. The devil has also lured some of our clergy into sin - a most recent example being priests who abused children - to bring doubt and to discredit the Church from within. If anything, I would imagine our Lord is greatly disappointed that so many of His children have been lured away from His Church through the deceptions of the devil.


#11

[quote=carol marie]The Bible is full of acconts of God getting very upset with His people. Of course He is patient & loving & quick to forgive - but let’s not forget that when His people continue to disobey and turn their backs on Him despite His efforts to turn them around - well read the Old Testement - it’s not pretty.
[/quote]

I love the Old Testament. But I also love the New Testament, the fulfillment of the Old.

In the Church, we used to call the Gospel of St. John, the last Gospel. Partly because it is the last Gospel accepted in the Canon, and partly because most of the readings for the Office of the Dead come from John. So, when someone dies, John is read. What does John say? John says God is love. John says love is never offended.
Read the Gospel according to St. John. For it will be read when you die as well.


#12

[quote=iwonder]I love the Old Testament. But I also love the New Testament, the fulfillment of the Old.

In the Church, we used to call the Gospel of St. John, the last Gospel. Partly because it is the last Gospel accepted in the Canon, and partly because most of the readings for the Office of the Dead come from John. So, when someone dies, John is read. What does John say? John says God is love. John says love is never offended.
Read the Gospel according to St. John. For it will be read when you die as well.
[/quote]

I understand your thinking but wouldn’t the entire book of Revelations be an example of God getting angry at us?


#13

I believe Christ is In the church. He is with us always. Faith is our shield. Maybe , The Lord is saddened when doubt displaces faith. Doubt gives birth to sin, then to death. We are the Church, and The Lord is faithfull and extends his hand. Grab it with all your heart. Tim


#14

No, he is not upset with the Catholic Church, it is His Bride. BUT He is really peeeveed with Protestants for all the mess they’ve made and for insulting His bride AND His mother.

There will be Hell to pay come judgement day !!! Hey that rhymes…:smiley:
wc


#15

[quote=wcknight]No, he is not upset with the Catholic Church, it is His Bride. BUT He is really peeeveed with Protestants for all the mess they’ve made and for insulting His bride AND His mother.

There will be Hell to pay come judgement day !!! Hey that rhymes…:smiley:
wc
[/quote]

Oh, come on. That is ridiculous as the Nature of God does not change depending on whether we are Catholic or Protestant. He remains the same. At least this what us Catholics believe. I think you know that and are hoping to spice up the discussion, yes? Ha, ha, ha. :smiley:


#16

[quote=iwonder]Oh, come on. That is ridiculous as the Nature of God does not change depending on whether we are Catholic or Protestant. He remains the same. At least this what us Catholics believe. I think you know that and are hoping to spice up the discussion, yes? Ha, ha, ha. :smiley:
[/quote]

Yes that was just said in jest… We are all in the same boat… no one gets out alive … :slight_smile: :crying:


#17

[quote=wcknight]Yes that was just said in jest… We are all in the same boat… no one gets out alive … :slight_smile: :crying:
[/quote]

:rotfl: :rotfl:


#18

[quote=carol marie]The Bible is full of acconts of God getting very upset with His people.
[/quote]

I think that God might be angry when Catholic priests claim to be Dracula, and because they think that they are Dracula, they go around saying that this gives them the right to homosexual sex. See:
ktva.com/Stories/0,1413,…2854324,00.html


#19

[quote=stanley123]I think that God might be angry when Catholic priests claim to be Dracula, and because they think that they are Dracula, they go around saying that this gives them the right to homosexual sex. See:
ktva.com/Stories/0,1413,…2854324,00.html
[/quote]

I think God would not be upset. Or offended. God is perfect. God does not get upset.


#20

[quote=iwonder]I think God would not be upset. Or offended. God is perfect. God does not get upset.
[/quote]

iwonder,
I think your opinion is interesting but how do you reconcile your view with the fact that Jesus got upset on many occasions? He turned the tables over & threw the money changers out of the temple. He called the religious leaders offspring of vipers. Yikes… sounds pretty ticked to me.

:hmmm: CM


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