Do You Think Martin Luther is in Heaven?


#1

How 'bout it? Is the ex-Augustinian priest in heaven or not? What do you think?

John


#2

I know he was in anguish over his decision, and he thought that the church was in human error. Perhaps there is forgiveness for that. He still worshiped God and Jesus Christ. Perhaps he is.


#3

[quote=Fitz]I know he was in anguish over his decision, and he thought that the church was in human error. Perhaps there is forgiveness for that. He still worshiped God and Jesus Christ. Perhaps he is.
[/quote]

I would hope he is because Jesus died for him,but I have read a book on his life and he cursed Holy mother Church to the end, with pure hatred. I won’t speculate,but I wouldn’t want to be in his shoes and face Our Lord.God Bless


#4

Maybe he is in Heaven. I think that he has a lot to answer for, and Purgatory is just the place to think about one’s mistakes in life.

Look at the division he caused in the Body of Christ.

And I’m a former Lutheran.


#5

i love that the catholic church won’t even come out and say that some one is in hell, but a faithful catholic will click on a web poll that martin luther is in hell. i just find that ironic. not trying to start a fight, it was just interesting to me.


#6

who knows, but i would think he’s got a better shot at heaven then henry the 8th. as far as i know, luther didn’t kill two of his wives. luther also had some legitimate complaints about the church in his day. i think his dad beat him so bad that it made him unable to think he could ever live up to his or God’s expectation. you really can’t judge anyone’s heart.


#7

[quote=John Higgins]How 'bout it? Is the ex-Augustinian priest in heaven or not? What do you think? John
[/quote]

The Church does not presume to know who is in heaven (except the saints, whose heroic sanctity has been investigated and confirmed) and who is in hell, and neither should we.

The Church teaches that God desires all men to be saved, that He is merciful, that it is possible to repent before death takes us, and that only God knows the answer to who is in hell.

:slight_smile: Jay

JMJ Jay


#8

I was in Augsburg, Germany recently and went to a public dialogue between the local Catholic and Lutheran Bishops. Well, the Catholic actually said that Martin Luther is a saint! I think that might be going a bit far, but it is important to point out that Luther never wanted a schism, and the fact that one resulted, and the pope excommunicated him, bothered him to the end of his days.

I definitely don’t think that he is in hell. I even refer to him as the “Blessed Reformer” from time to time. I grew up a Lutheran and I think the Reformation has actually been good for the Church. Remember that God always works the best possible outcome. Hopefully in this millennium the wounds torn into Christendom can be healed, and Christ’s Church will be One again.


#9

this story was related by an Episcopal bishop to a group of his seminarians. As he tells it, a prominent Lutheran pastor died and was surprised to find himself in hell. The first person he met was his old seminary professor. “How could this happen?” he asked in dismay. The professor said, “You think that’s crazy, wait until you see who else is here,” and led him over to meet Martin Luther. “This can’t be, what happened?” they asked the great reformer. “You think that’s nuts, look who else is down here,” Luther said. He pointed to St. Paul who was wandering around in a daze muttering to himself, “Works, it was works, who knew?”


#10

For our purposes it would be just as interesting to know if the Medici Popes are in heaven!

My guess is they are all three together, wherever they are.


#11

I even refer to him as the “Blessed Reformer” from time to time. I grew up a Lutheran and I think the Reformation has actually been good for the Church.

this is true. it’s hard to say the likes of St. Charles Boromeo, or St. Pius V, could of had the grace to become such outstanding saints if it was not for martin luther. of all of the reformers, i respect him the most. he lived a very pious life as a monk. i heard one story that when the precious blood was spilt, he licked it off the floor of the church. he was also very devoted to the Blessed Mother. he’s a complex guy. he also did a remarkable job in translating the bible into german (except the whole “faith alone” part). in the end though, he did say some vulgar things. he probably had a mental illness of some kind.


#12

I’ve heard that about Luther being a saint too, but I don’t know unless you take it in the context that all who make it to heaven are saints. As to canonization: forget it The priest I heard that from was extremely liberal and I didn’t agree with a lot of stuff he did and said.

I’m still working out my own salvation…I don’t even presume to speak for Luther or anyone else. :D.


#13

[quote=oat soda]this is true. it’s hard to say the likes of St. Charles Boromeo, or St. Pius V, could of had the grace to become such outstanding saints if it was not for martin luther. of all of the reformers, i respect him the most. he lived a very pious life as a monk. i heard one story that when the precious blood was spilt, he licked it off the floor of the church. he was also very devoted to the Blessed Mother. he’s a complex guy. he also did a remarkable job in translating the bible into german (except the whole “faith alone” part). in the end though, he did say some vulgar things. he probably had a mental illness of some kind.
[/quote]

Martin Luther approved the bigamous marriage of Philip of Hesse and sent Philip Melanchthon as his representative to witness it; said he could find no biblical grounds for opposing polygamy and therefore did not object to it; cut eleven (11) books from the canon of the Bible; invented Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura; hated the Jews so vehemently that he became a hero and model for the Nazis; fractured Christendom forever, and the list goes on and on. He was the first to label the Pope the antichrist and the Church the Whore of Babylon – or if not the first, he made these epithets the watchword of Protestantism.

Some hero!

My personal hope is that he will be in Purgatory until the end of time.

JMJ Jay


#14

Wow this is certainly skewed to one side.

In reference to the Jewish remark… Yes Luther said some very awful things about the Jewish, Anabaptists, and other groups. That being said he was not against Jews but the Jewish religion.

Nazi were against the Jews and Semites in general. They could care less if they were practicing Judaism or not they were to be killed just the same.


#15

[quote=Church Militant]I’ve heard that about Luther being a saint too, but I don’t know unless you take it in the context that all who make it to heaven are saints. As to canonization: forget it The priest I heard that from was extremely liberal and I didn’t agree with a lot of stuff he did and said.

I’m still working out my own salvation…I don’t even presume to speak for Luther or anyone else. :D.
[/quote]

Hi C.M.,Good point about working out your salvation. Thats what we as christians should be concerned with an not with anyone elses. :thumbsup: God Bless


#16

[quote=Katholikos]Martin Luther approved the bigamous marriage of Philip of Hesse and sent Philip Melanchthon as his representative to witness it; said he could find no biblical grounds for opposing polygamy and therefore did not object to it; cut eleven (11) books from the canon of the Bible; invented Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura; hated the Jews so vehemently that he became a hero and model for the Nazis; fractured Christendom forever, and the list goes on and on. He was the first to label the Pope the antichrist and the Church the Whore of Babylon – or if not the first, he made these epithets the watchword of Protestantism.

Some hero!

My personal hope is that he will be in Purgatory until the end of time.

JMJ Jay
[/quote]

A model of Catholic charity?


#17

cut eleven (11) books from the canon of the Bible; invented Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura; hated the Jews so vehemently that he became a hero and model for the Nazis; fractured Christendom forever, and the list goes on and on. He was the first to label the Pope the antichrist and the Church the Whore of Babylon

true, but if it wasn’t luther, someone else would have caused the reformation. wyclife and huss were protestant before luther. there was a lot of nationalistic feelings then which wanted to distance northern european countries from rome. the church was so corrupt that the priests in rome cursed during the mass and said blasphemous things like “bread it is and bread it remains”. don’t forget about the western schism when there were anti-popes in france. the church had was in poor shape (though there were some great saints like St. Teresa of avila and st. John of the cross… etc). luther pointed out legitimate errors although he did cross that line when he claimed the bible his sole authority. i think luther may have had good intentions intially, but he went crazy or was possesed towards the end of his life.


#18

[quote=Xavier]A model of Catholic charity?
[/quote]

My statements about Luther are historical facts. If it’s “uncharitable” to say that the Japanese started WWII with the U.S. and Germany started it by its aggression in Europe, so be it. It happened as it happened. Is it uncharitable to tell the truth? Are we “charitable” if we pretend it never happened?

Perhaps you are referring to my comment about my hope that Luther stays in Purgatory until the end of time.

Here’s a partial account of Fatima:

“Lucia asked [the Virgin] if she would go to heaven, and the lady told her that she would. She said that Francisco would have to say many Rosaries. Lucia asked about two of her friends who had just died. The lady told her that one of them was in heaven, but that the other one was in Purgatory until the world’s end.”

calltochrist.com/virginmary/Fatima.html

If one of Lucia’s friends is in Purgatory until the end of time – who can’t possibly have sinned on a par with Luther, who not only sinned but told others to sin (e.g. Philip of Hesse) and “Let Your Sins be Strong,” (letter to Melanchthon), and whose pernicious doctrines of Sole Fide and Sola Scriptura are still held by millions to this day – surely we can expect no less for the “Great Deformer” – uh, I mean Reformer.:stuck_out_tongue:

Charity is in the eyes of the beholder.

My criticism of Luther is not of him personally but of what he did to the Church founded by Christ – intentionally, deliberately, with malice aforethought.

In Purgatory, he’ll likely meet others who have harmed the Church, like Alexander VI and other bad Popes.

JMJ Jay
Lucia asked if she would go to Heaven and the Lady told her that she would. She said, however, that Francisco would have to say many rosaries. Lucia asked about two of her friends who had just died. The Lady told her that one of them was in heaven, but that the other was in purgatory until the world’s end. The Lady then asked of the them:


#19

[quote=oat soda]true, but if it wasn’t luther, someone else would have caused the reformation. wyclife and huss were protestant before luther. there was a lot of nationalistic feelings then which wanted to distance northern european countries from rome. the church was so corrupt that the priests in rome cursed during the mass and said blasphemous things like “bread it is and bread it remains”. don’t forget about the western schism when there were anti-popes in france. the church had was in poor shape (though there were some great saints like St. Teresa of avila and st. John of the cross… etc). luther pointed out legitimate errors although he did cross that line when he claimed the bible his sole authority. i think luther may have had good intentions intially, but he went crazy or was possesed towards the end of his life.
[/quote]

No doubt the Church need to be reformed – but Luther wasn’t a reformer, he was a destroyer. The Church reformed herself with the help of such saints as Francis of Assisi. I agree that Luther either went crazy or was possessed – but he and his ambitions fell into the hands of the German princes. His craziness is not an opinion shared by Protestants – he continues to be lionized as the Great Reformer who returned Christianity to “biblical purity” by standing up to the powerful, evil Church. Never mind that he desecrated the Bible.

JMJ Jay


#20

In nomine Jesu I offer you all peace,

Okay I’m going to be revealing my protestant roots here so don’t freak out on me but I’ve read a lot of Martin Luther’s works and I think if he would have seen how the Reformation spun out of control I think he would be very upset. Clearly the Church needed reform, I don’t think anyone in the modern day would deny that but we also need to understand the political factions at work that distorted a lot of the desires of Martin Luther and others who wished to reform the Church.

Peace, Love and Blessings,


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