Let me ask you a serious question: Do you reject Vatican II and the Church’s teaching post-Vatican II? How you answer that will give people here at least an idea about where you’re coning from.
Does the CCC teach that the religion and Allah of Islam revealed by the Quran is the Same God, the Jews and Catholics believe in?
Or does the CCC teach that the same Abrahamic One God,Creator, MUSLIMS profess, is the same God, Jews and Catholic’s profess?
Jesus overturned the tables.
we need to spread the truth, not be complacent about millions who don’t know Jesus.
you need to read it in its entirety, not just that paragraph
(bold mine) they still need Jesus who they reject as God.
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336
Wrong. Those you speak of are political quietists, in this case they divorce Islām from politics.
I’m assuming you’re referring to Hizb ut-Tahrir.
Explain or reword your sentence.
Nice red herring. But provide references with context.
Dissimulation to avoid persecution or death.
The Catechism points out we both worship the one true God.
841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day."330
We’ve had this particular attempt at semantic gymnastics before to try and avoid the passage’s implications.
The topic at hand is not whether Islam is correct. The topic is whether or not they worship the same God.
Spreading the truth would be to affirm church teaching that yes, they do worship the same God of Abraham that Christians and Jews do.
Now, if someone wants to get into questions of salvation, understandings of the nature of God, issues with Mohammed as last prophet, etc. that is fodder for another thread.
My response was at the person who claimed that Muslims worship a moon God. THAT idea, that Muslims worship a moon God, is contrary to the teaching of the Catholic Church.
And where did Jesus overturn the tables again? Not in the place of worship fo another faith? Indeed, it wasn’t even trading that was the problem it was the fact it was done dishonestly in that context.
what do you see as different between apostates and hypocrites? they both go astray.
the title ask, do you think Allah is the same God as Jesus, the answer is no and any muslim will agree.
exactly, they corrupted the religion of His Father
They engaged in cheating and dishonest trading. I’d say that doesn’t corrupt Judaism but does blaspheme against God, especially given where they were doing it. Also, ask a Jew if they Jesus is God, they will also say no, do they then worship a different God?
This is not what Catholicism teaches, the Catholic Church views Jews and Muslims as worshipping the one true God also, albeit deficiently. The Orthodox maintain they do not, but even there opinions on that vary and my wife for example would say that such a decision was above her pay grade and that God knows his own.
You are correct, and my original statement was not clear. My apologies. Thank you for correcting me.
I watched an interview with a Muslim scholar last year and he said the 72 “virgins” is actually a wrong translation and that the correct one was 72 grapes (not virgins).
This discussion is stupid. Allah means God. Which religions god are you talking about?
Can we debate if Gott is a nazi?
My point is that they all refer to the Abrahamic God and the use of the name Allah and who or what it refers to. Beyond that, I understand that each of these religions has their own views, traditions and and ideas that they hold to be revelations, and they all see truths within their own rites that they believe to be unique to themselves and lacking in the others. My post wasn’t intended to address any of that.
You are going way past my point. Islam, Judaism and Christianity are considered to be Abrahamic religions because they all profess to worship the God of Abraham, and that Allah and God refer to the same deity among these religions. Allah and God are two linguistic tiles for the same thing. I didn’t offer a judgement on which religion has the authentic understanding of God, or which is valid or which is best, or who is saved or who is not. I gather each thinks they are uniquely real as compared to the others. I have no interest in any of that.
Scroll down to number 4 on this link
Melkites call God Allah.
Thank you for showing careful precision in your analysis.
I would still point out that the majority of Muslims are Sunni or Shi’ite, which implies that the issues under discussion still apply to the majority of Muslim believers.
I believe that they are different. One of the ways to tell is the fact that the God of the Bible is jealous, whereas the god of the Qur’an is not jealous. If they were the same, “The Jealous One” would be one of Allah’s 99 names, but it is not.
exnihilo - Islam claims to follow the God of Abraham, via Ishmael and Hagar, but I ‘smell’ that this is a later redaction by the caliphs who forged a religious identity to go along with their rapidly growing Arab empire.
I recommend you watch and listen to ‘The Sacred City’ by Dan Gibson - it is an eye opener. Watch AND listen to the full presentation.