Does a Devout Catholic Support Gay Marriage?


#1

Tonight I wathced Robert Kennedy Jr. on Fox News. He was supposed to talk about his new book on corporate greed. The conversation though immediately went into gay marriage. He started off his diatribe by qualifying that he is a “Devout Roman Catholic” and that Jesus taught us not cast the first stone, and also invoked that we will be judged as we judge others. He then went on to give his opinions that gay marriage should be allowed. He indicated he knows many gay people and they are not “evil.” Finally, he implied that a person who is against gay marriage is no better than a segregationist who discriminated against blacks. Orielly failed to ask Mr. Kennedy what is the definiition of a “devout Catholic.” Furthermore, he did not challenge Mr. Kennedy on his alleged devoutness but yet open hostility against the Church’s teaching that marriage is only between a man and a woman. How do you respond to these people who cloak themselves in the viel of “devout Catholic”, but then immediately tear down the Churches teachings?

YBIC,

Steve


#2

Marriage is God’s sacrament, and Gods institution and with that being said,No government or law can change that.It blows my mind the attempts being mad to throw God out of the society.The ten commandments for example,since they want to throw them out than make it legal to steal, to kill,oops they already did that one. I could go through the list, but I think the point has been made.As far as gay people being evil, that was a deliberate misrepresentation of Church teaching. If a gay person is chaste there is not a problem. It is the homosexual activity that is intrinsically evil. I wish Oreilly asked the so called faithful Catholic if the gay person is a person because he is gay or because God created him in his image and likeness. God Bless


#3

I usually respond like this —>:rolleyes:
it is very frustrating… I was kinda listening to it, but, I was paying more attention to posting, I figured a Kennedy wouldn’t say much I would agree with. I just wish their Bishops would stand up and say something.


#4

The battle cry of the American Catholic is “Don’t be so judgemental.” American Catholics believe if they go around whimpering this, people will not contradict their ridiculous opinions.

And they may be right. They set the ground rules for any discussion. And the ground rule is this. If you disagree with me, you are just like the self-rightous Pharisees who wanted to stone Mary Magdellan to death.

The American Catholic says “I decide for myself what is right and wrong.” It is a statement of pure evil. It comes from the very depths of Hell itself. It is a statement of a man who, like Satan, says, “I am God”. The American Catholic’s greatest fear, that of being judged, will come to pass. At death, he will join his mentor in the fires of a place he says doesn’t exist.


#5

After reflecting upon this some more I have come to the conclusion that you do not pass judgment on any one by believing and defending the Church’s teaching on marriage. You are only speaking the truth. Just as grey is not white or water is not land, marriage is by definition a union between man and woman. I also think it helps to have an image of Alan Keyes in your head as a model of how to engage these so called “Devout Catholics.”


#6

[quote=Grey Ghost]After reflecting upon this some more I have come to the conclusion that you do not pass judgment on any one by believing and defending the Church’s teaching on marriage. You are only speaking the truth. Just as grey is not white or water is not land, marriage is by definition a union between man and woman. I also think it helps to have an image of Alan Keyes in your head as a model of how to engage these so called “Devout Catholics.”
[/quote]

:amen: thanks for the focus…


#7

From my understanding, a devout Catholic is a Catholic who is obedient to the teachings of the Church. So devout Catholics don’t support gay “marriage.”


#8

This one does.

Not sacramental marriage, but I believe gay people should be able to marry each other if they want.


#9

[quote=Penny Plain]This one does.

Not sacramental marriage, but I believe gay people should be able to marry each other if they want.
[/quote]

How do you reconcile this with your faith? What role does Church teaching play in your faith-generally and on this issue? (NOT a challenge, sincere questions)


#10

[quote=Penny Plain]This one does.

Not sacramental marriage, but I believe gay people should be able to marry each other if they want.
[/quote]

But what you believe is not determinative. Either you accept the teachings of the Church or you do not. I mean you can believe anything you darned well please but doesn’t that put you at odds with the Church? Isn’t this like saying well I believe women should be able to get an abortion? I believe scientists should be able to harvest embryos for stem cell research? What’s the difference?

Lisa N


#11

[quote=Grey Ghost]Tonight I wathced Robert Kennedy Jr. on Fox News. He was supposed to talk about his new book on corporate greed. The conversation though immediately went into gay marriage. He started off his diatribe by qualifying that he is a “Devout Roman Catholic” and that Jesus taught us not cast the first stone, and also invoked that we will be judged as we judge others. He then went on to give his opinions that gay marriage should be allowed. He indicated he knows many gay people and they are not “evil.” Finally, he implied that a person who is against gay marriage is no better than a segregationist who discriminated against blacks. Orielly failed to ask Mr. Kennedy what is the definiition of a “devout Catholic.” Furthermore, he did not challenge Mr. Kennedy on his alleged devoutness but yet open hostility against the Church’s teaching that marriage is only between a man and a woman. How do you respond to these people who cloak themselves in the viel of “devout Catholic”, but then immediately tear down the Churches teachings?

YBIC,

Steve
[/quote]

Well…Jesus DID say don’t cast the first stone and that we will be judged as we judge others.

Didn’t He?

The Catholic Church is a big tent organization

With almost a billion members there is probably quite a bit of difference of opinion across it.

Even someone who is devote can have legitimate questions over certain points. that doesn’t make them bad, questioning is the begining of faith.

Being Catholic doesn’t mean simply towing the line…it wouldn’t be much of a faith then would it?

Personally I think marriage is a great thing and if two people want to do it more power too them but that is just me

If the Church doesn’t want to do it that is fine however the civil government is in a slightly different position.

I think that opponents of gay marriage lost the battle in the civil arena when marriage rights were extended to non-married hetero-sexual couples


#12

[quote=Lisa N]But what you believe is not determinative. Either you accept the teachings of the Church or you do not. I mean you can believe anything you darned well please but doesn’t that put you at odds with the Church? Isn’t this like saying well I believe women should be able to get an abortion? I believe scientists should be able to harvest embryos for stem cell research? What’s the difference?

Lisa N
[/quote]

AFAIK the Church says it is a sin to marry someone of the same sex while it is not a sin to think that two people of the same sex could be married.

Despite what the Protestants may say the Church isn’t some Orwellian place where “thought crime” is a sin


#13

[quote=Steve Andersen]Well…Jesus DID say don’t cast the first stone and that we will be judged as we judge others.

Didn’t He?

[/quote]

He sure did. But he meant in respect to people, not to their judgements. Jesus was a living example of the compassion we are required to have for everyone, and that compassion includes telling them when they are sinning. Doesn’t mean they’ll like it, but that shouldn’t shut us up.

You obviously have a very skewed concept of the Church. It is the sole means by which God comes to Earth. It is united by a clear, common teaching, the sanctity of marriage being part of that. There are many who use the name “Catholic” but arguably are not true Catholics because they do not agree with parts of this Truth that the Church teaches.

There is a difference between “questioning” as in exploring the reasons why we believe certain things and “questioning” as in disagreeing with certain teachings. The first is okay-in fact it is encouraged and required by any human with faculties for critical thinking. The second is disobedience.

Being Catholic means obedience. The word has such a negative connotation in our culture, thanks especially to moral relativism, but in reality God gave us the Church and through it he teaches us what is best for us, what will ensure our fulfillment here on earth and our salvation later on.

I think marriage is an awesome thing. The definition of marriage, includes a man and a woman. “Homosexual marriage” is an oxymoron. The statement itself commits the logical fallacy of contradictory premises. Let me ask you if you think marriage between a man and two woman is a great thing? It defies the basic definition of marriage. The idea of “homosexual marriage” threatens to destroy the basic building block of our culture, which is already being assailed by divorce, contraceptives, and selfish parents who refuse to be open to the gift of life.

The civil government was founded on Judeo-Christian values and ideas. The morals which came to earth through the Church are its bedrock. Furthermore, the duty of the government is to protect the good of the people. Allowing our culture to be degraded and our values to be ripped apart is not protecting our good.


#14

I oppose gay marriage for the same reason I oppose allowing pedophiles or ephebophiles being allowed to marry their adolescent lovers–not because it’s against Church teaching, but because it’s bad public policy.

Marriage law is discriminatory by design. We provide certain public benefits to married couples because marriage is deemed to be beneficial to society–in the first place by raising and educating the next generation of citizens.

Are anti-counterfeiting laws unfair? After all, just because you produce thousands of fake dollars, how does that affect the real dollars I have in my wallet?

Well, it devalues them, for one thing. Produce enough counterfeits, and the real thing is of less value.

Real marriage, and real children, are important enough to society that they should be given favorable treatment uner the law. Counterfeit marriage should not be so protected.


#15

What boggles the mind is that homosexuals are going for this. They are walking right into a minefield called divorce if they succede in getting gay marriage legalized. But actually, I think there is less interest by homosexuals to marry than there is in seeing the institution of marriage destroyed.

Scott


#16

[quote=Scott Waddell]What boggles the mind is that homosexuals are going for this. They are walking right into a minefield called divorce if they succede in getting gay marriage legalized. But actually, I think there is less interest by homosexuals to marry than there is in seeing the institution of marriage destroyed.
[/quote]

I think you are right. There is less interest in actual marriage, than in promoting and enforcing by law, the idea that “anything goes” in the sexual realm–that any and all expressions of sexuality, of whatever variety, are equally valid.


#17

[quote=Grey Ghost]I also think it helps to have an image of Alan Keyes in your head as a model of how to engage these so called “Devout Catholics.”
[/quote]

The only image of Alan Keyes that is helpful to many of us from Illinois is the image of him boarding a plane at O’Hare.

John


#18

Anyone can SAY they’re a devout Catholic. Actually being one is demonstrated in one’s actions. As they say, actions speak louder than words.

[quote=Grey Ghost]Tonight I wathced Robert Kennedy Jr. on Fox News. He was supposed to talk about his new book on corporate greed. The conversation though immediately went into gay marriage. He started off his diatribe by qualifying that he is a “Devout Roman Catholic” and that Jesus taught us not cast the first stone, and also invoked that we will be judged as we judge others. He then went on to give his opinions that gay marriage should be allowed. He indicated he knows many gay people and they are not “evil.” Finally, he implied that a person who is against gay marriage is no better than a segregationist who discriminated against blacks. Orielly failed to ask Mr. Kennedy what is the definiition of a “devout Catholic.” Furthermore, he did not challenge Mr. Kennedy on his alleged devoutness but yet open hostility against the Church’s teaching that marriage is only between a man and a woman. How do you respond to these people who cloak themselves in the viel of “devout Catholic”, but then immediately tear down the Churches teachings?

YBIC,

Steve
[/quote]


#19

[quote=John Higgins]The only image of Alan Keyes that is helpful to many of us from Illinois is the image of him boarding a plane at O’Hare.

John
[/quote]

(Having just moved from the Chicago 'burbs) AMEN!!!


#20

[quote=Steve Andersen]AFAIK the Church says it is a sin to marry someone of the same sex while it is not a sin to think that two people of the same sex could be married.

Despite what the Protestants may say the Church isn’t some Orwellian place where “thought crime” is a sin
[/quote]

Not what I said at all. Penny said she thought gays should be able to marry AND that she was a devout Catholic. I pointed out that it’s an internally inconsistent statement. You can be one or the other but not both, simultaneously. Apply the same logic with respect to whether you think someone should be able to abort? Or is that a thought crime too? Whether something is right or not should not depend only on what we think or what is right for us. Or we descend into a state of moral relativism.

In saying she thinks gays should be able to marry, Penny’s supporting homosexual activity. Homoesexual activity is quite clearly prohibited by the church. This would be the same as saying she thinks women should be able to abort whenever they wish. So in effect she’s saying the Church is wrong and she is right.That doesn’t compute to the devout Catholic profile.

Lisa N


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.