My JW friend says, God created Adam & Eve on paradise earth to go forth and multiply. If they were perfect, why do we think we’re destined for Heaven if God’s original intention for us was in the world. I love his site. Thank you all. Cristo
At the Resurrection, there will be a New Earth where all will live. Thus, Paradise will be “restored” as it were.
Don’t J-hovah’s Witnesses believe that 144,000 JW’s will go to heaven and have immortal life in the form of souls, while the rest will have everlasting life on earth in the form of bodies?
Yes, they believe something along those lines. They refer to the 144,000 as the “Little Flock” and only they will actually go to Heaven. Of course they get that number from the book of Revelations. It is only a symbolic number of course, but they take it literally.
As far as paradise Earth goes, they turn to verses like Psalms 37:29. “The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein forever.” (KJV) The also point to the many prophecies in Isaiah and Psalms which say things like sheep and lions will lay down together, all wars will cease, and there will be plenty of grain on the Earth. When Jesus tells the thief on the cross,“Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise”, they argue that Jesus if referring to the future paradise Earth. JW’s believe the comma should be after the word today in that quote. If you mention the “New Earth” which comes down in the book of Revelations, they will say that the New Earth is simply our current Earth after all sin has been eliminated. The Earth will be like new again.
Basically, once Christ returns and eliminates all sin and wickedness, the Earth will return to its original, perfect state. Just imagine the whole world being like the Garden of Eden. And the righteous will inherit this new, perfect Earth.
IMO, it’s useless arguing doctrine with them. They are very will trained and if you don’t know your stuff forward and backwords, they will walk all over you. Trust me on this. They have been coming over regularly 9 months now, and I haven’t swayed them the slightest bit.
There will be a new earth where the lion will lay with the lamb and all will be well and restored like it was before adam and eve sinned.
Heaven is a place on earth. Literally. We are not going to live out as souls without bodies for all eternity. God created us as body and souls, it is our nature. Christ became man because Adam and Even damaged the nature of humanity and Christ, sharing in our wounded humanity, perfected our nature by adding his divinity to it. That is why at the end of time there is a general resurrection, all souls will be reunited with their bodies. Heaven and earth will pass away and God will set a new heaven and a new earth, and there we will live in the new Jerusalem. Those who are unworthy will be cast out into the unquenchable fire.
Hi All, Thanks for replies. However I’m not sure what’s being suggested. JW’s say we will not go to heaven when we die (if we’re not one of the 144,000) but will only be resurrected at the end of time and live our life on a paradise earth free from pain, sickness etc. etc. This suggests two separate places. I refute this and say we will go to heaven (immediately) and be in the God’s company (Father, Son and holy Spirit) and our bodies will be raised at the end of time and we will remain in God’s company.
He say’s God put Adam and Eve on a paradise earth so this was God’s original purpose for human existence. So how can we i.e. the Catholic Church, disagree with God’s original plan and say we’ll go to Heaven. I’m really looking for a way to explain clearly the church’s position/reasoning.
PS, to MrsFlapjack, my friend has been calling for almost 5yrs and neither of us are for turning but it has helped me understand a lot more about and grow stronger in my faith.
Conveniently, they tend to have their established doctrine, and simply conform what they see to that doctrine, even if the passage doesn’t seem to suggest anything.
I find it interesting that when JWs show illustrations of the new Paradise Earth filled with smiling JWs (after Armageddon when the rest of us are gone) the JWs are always depicted wearing clothing. Why is that? If the Paradise Earth returns mankind their original state before the fall - why aren’t the people naked like Adam & Eve?
Just something I ponder … :hmmm:
Lolz, I never thought of that! I’ll ask them that next time they come.
Who says heaven is separate from earth? Heaven is where God is, and God is in all His creation, including earth. Once the new heaven and new earth arrives, God will be manifested fully in all of creation.
Well if Adam and Eve would not have sinned and refused to repent we would not have had original sin, and would probally still be alive and living in paradise today.
That is what Paradise is living in heaven and with no sin.
Because of thier sin we inherited Original sin, and by the grace of God on the cross have it removed by our Baptism.
Because of original sin, death entered the world. Because of the cross at our Physical death, eternal life comes from the blood of Jesus.
When Jesus comes back and raises all from the grave and separates the good from the bad we will once again have the New Earth.
Well in a way they are right. Many will not enter heaven but will be thrown into eternal fires which we call hell.
The Church does not disagree with God’s original purpose, Adam and Eve disagreed with it when they sinned.
Ask your friend how does the sin of Adam and Eve, and God throwing them out of paradise make the Church disagreeing with God’s original plan. This makes no sense to me.
What is the Church disagreeing with? The Church is what was put here by Jesus Christ and led by the Holy Spiirt to lead us all into eternal life with Christ, not keep us apart from him.
I must say I do agree that heaven is separate from earth. Here is why. Only those who are judged righteous can go to heaven. Many will never see heaven because they refuse the love of God and want no parts of him.
While I agree God is truly present here in this world, I disagree that this is heaven. I do believe heaven is separate from earth.
There is No SIN in heaven, and there is much on this earth.
Why did he set a forbidden tree in the middle of the garden. Will he also set this tree in the middle of the garden after Jesus return, and someone will eat again from it. This contradicts completely the revelation of Johannes 21 and 22.