Does any church outside of the Catholic Church have valid holy orders?

Lol…please don’t hold back on our account, and tell us how you really feel.

But thank you for sharing.

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Indeed, in cases of relationships between members of Orthodox Churches and Catholic individuals both the British and US bishops advise if those progress to marriage it is better to marry in the Orthodox Church as we see their sacraments as valid but the reverse is not always true and the Orthodox partner can’t marry in a Catholic Church without incurring a penalty.

I am, the style of address in your post is ‘off’ to say the least and serves as a poor witness for your own Church.

Ratzinger has his opinions and I have mine. I’m stickin’ with 'em.

I think his opinions hold more weight, since he actually represents the Catholic Church, than an anonymous poster on the Internet.

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I never claimed to represent the entirety of the Church. Doesn’t mean that Luther wasn’t wrong as the day is long, though. . . .

Thank goodness.


All good things come from God, and He gave us the Catholic Church.

You’re welcome. :grin:

To answer the OP’s question succinctly, by definition: all of them.

The definition of a Church is one that has valid apostolic succession; Protestants such as Lutheranism, Episcopalianism, Pentecostalism are known to us as “ecclesial communities” and not Churches.

I do give thanks for the Catholic Church. It makes word and sacrament available to over a billion people.


He also gave us the Lutheran Church. Anything that bring us to God is a blessing from God.

Thank God.


SSPX is not outside the Catholic Church. Pope Francis has been granting faculties to them. The Pope does not grant faculties outside the Church.

Now that they have women acting as bishops, their orders are even more suspect than they were before.


Wouldn’t that be hugely problematic if an Anglican priest did have valid holy orders - he could (in your view) confect a valid Eucharist (assuming he’s high church and using proper rubrics) which is then eaten by his non-Catholic parishioners?

For those Anglicans who attempt to ordain/consecrate sacramentally invalid subjects, true.

We right thinking Anglicans consider their orders suspect, without further inquiry, ourselves.

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Nope. That was Mr. Wrong Luther, who thought he knew better than God.

Hardly seems like a problem the RCC could do anything about.

So the logical conclusion (in Catholic understanding) would be: a lot of unprepared people are receiving the Body and Blood of Christ. That would be a dire/dangerous situation, wouldn’t it? :grimacing:

I would suppose so.

Assuming the RCC ever declared positively that a given Anglican priest
did possess valid orders. The rare cases of sub conditione ordinations merely take notice of that possibility. And I don’t expect to see any more of them.

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The problem is that after a few generations you will never know if anAnglican vicar is legit without researching his episcopal lineage.

It was this which convinced me of the unsoundness of the entire Anglican project, even that of the Pusey House Type High Church which I had followed.

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