Does any wine inside the church change to our Lords blood?


#1

Originally Posted by Chan26
I have a question for you or anyone,(I’m new) I travel a great deal and some churches where I attend Mass don’t offer wine to the pew-sters. What is the radius of the miracle of transubstantiation, that is, If i were to bring my own wine to mass, would that also be changed to our Lord’s blood?
I have read that in the early church there was actually a meal at the celebration of the Mass–people brought their own bread and wine.
Thank you for any thought you can share for me, love to all.
chan


#2

[quote="Chan26, post:1, topic:316806"]
Originally Posted by Chan26

I have a question for you or anyone,(I'm new) I travel a great deal and some churches where I attend Mass don't offer wine to the pew-sters. What is the radius of the miracle of transubstantiation, that is, If i were to bring my own wine to mass, would that also be changed to our Lord's blood?
I have read that in the early church there was actually a meal at the celebration of the Mass--people brought their own bread and wine.
Thank you for any thought you can share for me, love to all.
chan

[/quote]

No, your own wine would not be transubstantiation. It is based upon the intention of the priest. He has the bread and wine on the altar.


#3

THat seems reasonable. However, I was looking for an authority. But thank you.
tc


#4

[quote="Chan26, post:3, topic:316806"]
THat seems reasonable. However, I was looking for an authority. But thank you.
tc

[/quote]

I believe the necessity of intent is proclaimed in the Council of Florence.


#5

Concerning the idea that the faithful in the early church brought their own bread and wine...This may well have been true, but they would have placed these items before the priest on the Altar (note what happens today at the offertory when the bread and wine is brought up). Thus, only what was on the Altar would be consecrated.

It's an interesting question that you ask...but I think it best you talk to your priest/confessor about this.
We receive the entirety of Jesus in the bread OR in the wine. The question I would be asking myself is - why do I want to bring my own? What is lacking in my faith that I feel this desire?

Something to consider...

Peace
James


#6

Even if you did bring your own wine and it were to be transubstantiated, you would not be allowed to partake of it, because that would be self-communication and that is reserved to the priest (the only exception I can think of right now is in cases of Services of the Word and Holy Communion without the presence of a Priest or Deacon, an EMHC may self-communicate, at least according to the norms in the English Catholic Church).

In any case, the only bread and wine that is transubstantiated is that which is both on the altar and within the intention of the presiding priest.

A true example by way of explanation:

My previous parish priest was presented at the offertory with a large host that had been damaged (someone had spilled water on it). He paused the Mass and instructed his altar server to go to the sacristy and fetch a new one. He laid the old one at the edge of the altar (and not on the Corporal cloth) and proceeded with the Mass.

The damaged host was discarded after Mass without any ceremony. I remember him saying "I can't consecrate this". Therefore it wasn't consecrated.

The same would be true of any valid matter in the Church that wasn't actually in the priest's sight or within his intention to consecrate. Certainly any hidden bread or wine would never be consecrated.


#7

I would avoid calling the limits of the intention a "radius" because some people might get the idea that it is a magical force that extends in space.

De Defectibus is a bull written by St. Pius V and dealing with defects in the celebration of Mass. At that time there was no indult for laity to receive the precious blood, so it doesn't deal with multiple chalices, but it seems safe to assume the same principles that apply to the hosts apply to the wine also (sorry I don't have a document to establish that).

VII - Defect of intention

  1. The intention of consecrating is required. Therefore there is no consecration in the following cases: when a priest does not intend to consecrate but only to make a pretense; when some hosts remain on the altar forgotten by the priest, or when some part of the wine or some host is hidden, since the priest intends to consecrate only what is on the corporal; when a priest has eleven hosts before him and intends to consecrate only ten, without determining which ten he means to consecrate. On the other hand, if he thinks there are ten, but intends to consecrate all that he has before him, then all will be consecrated. For that reason every priest should always have such an intention, namely the intention of consecrating all the hosts that have been Placed on the corporal before him for consecration.

  2. It may be that the intention is not actual at the time of the Consecration because the priest lets his mind wander, yet is still virtual, since he has come to the altar intending to do what the Church does. In this case the Sacrament is valid. A priest should be careful, however, to make his intention actual also.
    This thread and this thread also deal with intention and hosts.


#8

And what JRKH and DexUK said.


#9

I love the Church... for almost all questions it's usually thought of the answer first :)


#10

[quote="DexUK, post:9, topic:316806"]
I love the Church... for almost all questions it's usually thought of the answer first :)

[/quote]

After listening to 2000 years of the faithful asking, "Yea but what it...", it shouldn't surprise us that so many answers already exist.

Peace
James


#11

[quote="DexUK, post:9, topic:316806"]
I love the Church... for almost all questions it's usually thought of the answer first :)

[/quote]

Am I sinning against the Lord by only taking the bread at communion and not the wine? (I have an intolerance for beverage alcohol, much the same as some people have a lactose intolerance for dairy products.):confused:


#12

[quote="LegoGE1947, post:11, topic:316806"]
Am I sinning against the Lord by only taking the bread at communion and not the wine? (I have an intolerance for beverage alcohol, much the same as some people have a lactose intolerance for dairy products.):confused:

[/quote]

No - Christ is entirely present in each - so taking only the host is perfectly acceptable.

Peace
James


#13

[quote="Chan26, post:1, topic:316806"]
Originally Posted by Chan26

If i were to bring my own wine to mass, would that also be changed to our Lord's blood?

[/quote]

Goodness no.

You communicate fully under either species: This means that whether you receive only the Host or only from the chalice, you receive the BODY, BLOOD, SOUL, and DIVINITY of the risen Christ. The Blood is not lacking from the Body (host) nor the Body from the Blood (wine).


#14

Any bread or wine that is to be consecrated is placed on a corporal spread on top of the altar, and the priest must have the intention to consecrate it. If, for example, a wine cruet remained on the side of the altar because there was no altar server to take it away, the wine in the cruet would not be consecrated unless it were on the corporal and the priest intended to consecrate it.


#15

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