Does denying Christ's Church mean...?


#1

When Protestants and Pseudo-Christian cults deny Christ’s Church (which we believe to be the Holy Catholic Church) does this mean they are calling Christ a liar?

Because according to St. Matthew 16:18-19, Christ tells us Hell will never prevail against his Church. So if Protestants and JWs, Mormons, etc. say the Church went apostate after such and such a time, aren’t they really saying Christ lied to us?

I myself have worried about this, and to me it seems fairly black and white.

Deny Christ’s Church=Denying Christ. Would that statement be in line with Catholic teaching? I know to liberal Catholics and Protestants it sounds harsh.:thumbsup:

Discussion, comments, etc. encouraged!

Pace e Bene
Andrew


#2

It is harsh, but Jesus had many harsh sayings, like “pick up your cross and follow me”. I believe that this was exactly His meaning, though. This is why it is so ludicrous to have a “Jesus an me” mentality. Jesus came to create a Body, to found a Church. He never intended for us to be isolated from one another.

Luke 10:16

16 “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

I don’ t think that most Protestants can be rightly charged with rejecting Christ, though, because most of them don’t know that the Catholic Church is the one founded by Christ. They cannot be held to this standard as long as they are in ignorance.


#3

So if Protestants and JWs, Mormons, etc. say the Church went apostate after such and such a time, aren’t they really saying Christ lied to us?

Protestants are saying that a certain chrurch organization added too much human tradition to God’s Word (Scripture) and we needed to seperate from that and continue in God’s Word. All protestants have always believed that there has always been a true invisible church of people who trusted in Christ alone.

Because according to St. Matthew 16:18-19, Christ tells us Hell will never prevail against his Church.

Matt. 16:18"I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.

The Gates of hell will not over power the church. Gates don’t attack you, you attack a cities gates when defeating an enemy. Is Jesus saying a particualr church will never fail, or that the church (God’s people) will succeed when they go on the attack against the devil’s city.

Thanks,
Tim


#4

This depends on whether or not one were to believe that Christ’s Church is to be the universal hierarchal Church founded by Christ and built on Peter as Matthew 16:18 states. You are correct in saying that all of Jesus’ followers are the Body of Christ, therefore part of His Church. But, when you have 33,000 different denominations and offshoots as far as JW’s and Mormons, there are sections of His body that do not possess the fulness of truth.

Jesus left a physical Church to carry on His physical Body after He ascended to His Father. Why would matter ( His apostles, bread, wine, and later on scripture) matter if Jesus intended to remain only spiritual and invisible?? In the OT, God was visible through Moses and the Patriarchs. Jesus never intended an invisible group of followers all scrambling to intepret a Book (writings that had to be acknowledged by the Church) that even scholars find difficult to discern.

There is one Christ and His one Church. Now, if you do not believe that then just you and I are two followers of Christ where one of us does not posees the fulness of truth. Now multiply us by a couple of billion Christians…God Bless…teachccd :slight_smile:


#5

There is no historical proof that Christ’s Church turned apostate, and neither protestants or quasi-christian sects can historically prove that this took place with any amount of legitimacy. The sad truth is, for most prots today, they have no clue as to what it means as they have been inculcated to believe that the true Church of Christ is ‘invisible.’ That’s a given to them without any forethought. Once protestant founders convinced their followers that the ‘true’ church was ‘invisible’ they were well on their way in an attempt to de-legitimize the Catholic Church, and developed a whole radical theology to defend their position.


#6

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