does God exist?


#1

Is there an argument from reason that necessitates the existence of God?


#2

Thomas Aquinas answered this question wonderfully way back in the 13th century

newadvent.org/summa/100203.htm


#3

Did he? Does his arguments necessitate God’s existence? For example: does the argument from contingency necessitate an ultimate source? Why not an infinite regress?


#4

Is there an argument from reason that necessitates the existence of God? Do the traditional “proofs” suffice? For example: does the argument from contingency necessitate an ultimate source? Why not an infinite regress?


#5

[quote=bassman]Did he? Does his arguments necessitate God’s existence? For example: does the argument from contingency necessitate an ultimate source? Why not an infinite regress?
[/quote]

Logic tells us that the universe must have begun at a finite date, and could not create itself from nothing. Thus, it must be created. I’ll come back and talk more later, I have to run right now. Good question though, I have thought this one over many times.

Eamon


#6

Suggested reading:

peterkreeft.com/featured-writing.htm

specifically with regard to infinite regression:
peterkreeft.com/topics/first-cause.htm

Even more:
peterkreeft.com/topics-more/20_arguments-gods-existence.htm


#7

do you plan to post this question on every forum? pick a forum, please, and stick with it, otherwise the discussion is not going to make much sense and will be too hard to follow. check out forum rules, too.

[quote=bassman]Is there an argument from reason that necessitates the existence of God?
[/quote]


#8

[quote=puzzleannie]do you plan to post this question on every forum? pick a forum, please, and stick with it, otherwise the discussion is not going to make much sense and will be too hard to follow. check out forum rules, too.
[/quote]

You read my mind! :thumbsup:

Eamon


#9

Yes, he definitely does.

Before I start discussing how He MUST necessarily exist, show me how some Higher Being possibly couldn’t. Because I don’t know where to start as it is.


#10

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The power of faith is enormous. It is so great that it not only saves the believer: thanks to one person’s faith others are saved also.

The paralytic at Capernaum did not have faith. But the men who brought him to Jesus and let him down through the roof had it. The soul of the sick man was ill as well as his body. That is made clear in the Gospel: ‘And when Jesus saw their faith he said……”Rise, take up your pallet and go home.”’ The Gospel does not speak of ‘his’ faith but of ‘their’ faith. The stretcher-bearers believed and the paralytic had the benefit of being healed because of it. (Mark 2:1-11)

Then there is the death of Lazarus. Four days had passed. His body was already decomposing. How could one who had been dead for so many days believe and himself ask for the Deliverer? He could not possibly do so, but his sisters provided the faith for him. When they met the Lord, one sister fell down at his feet. He asked, ‘Where have you laid him?’ The other sister said, ‘Lord, by this time there will be a bad smell.’ Then the Lord said, ‘If you believe you will see the glory of God.’ As if to say, ‘As regards faith, you must take the place of the dead man.’ And the faith of the sisters succeeded in calling Lazarus back from the hereafter. (John 11:1-44)

So if these two women by believing in place of the other were able to secure his resurrection, how much more certainly will you be able to secure it for yourself by your own faith?

Perhaps your own faith is feeble. Nevertheless, the Lord who is love will stoop down to you, provided only you are penitent and can say sincerely from the depths of your soul: ‘Lord, I believe. Help thou mine unbelief.’ (Mark 9:23)

Cyril of Jerusalem


#11

[quote=bassman]Is there an argument from reason that necessitates the existence of God?
[/quote]

How do you know that God exits?

I have many reasons for believing in God’s existence. However, I am only listing one reason for my belief here. I would like to read how others have come to know that God exists.

Love

One reason I know God exists is based on love. Anyone that has a child can relate to what I am going to say next. When my oldest son was a toddler, I was sitting on the couch, watching TV, when he climbed onto my lap, facing me. He looked at me intently, as he drew his face closer to mine. He reached out, with his little hands and squeeze both of my cheeks. All the while staring directly into my eyes, then he leaned back, tilted his head and smiled, and said, “Daddy I Love you”. He reached his little arms around me and hugged me. I hugged him back and said, “I love you too son”, at that moment, along with many other blessed moments in my life; I experience pure, full, sincere, innocent love, the kind of love that completely fills your heart.

At that moment, it is as if God himself reached out, and with his finger, touched the center of my chest and I could feel the warmth of his love radiate outward from that point, throughout my entire body.

Moments like this don’t last long, but they are still awesome and important. The reason they are important, I believe, is that through the ones we love, God does reach out and touch us. Poof, in an instant, you are hit with a small amount of God’s love. I say small amount, because God’s love has no bounds.

I am very blessed that I can remember this moment, a moment I shared with my father (God) and a moment my son shared with his father. There have been many, many moments like this in my life, as I’m sure you have experienced. It is our Father’s way of letting us know him, that He exists and is with us and experience his love a little bit at a time. He is trying to let us know what we have to look forward to when we finally join him for eternity. I know love comes from God, because it is the only thing you can never grow tired of, or get too much of. How else could you enjoy all of eternity?

God is constantly trying to let us know, He does exist and He loves us! God communicates to all of us with love.


#12

I do Believe that GOD exist. why? because i can post this thread, i am present in this world


#13

Kreeft gives detailed logical arguments. See the following:

peterkreeft.com/featured-writing.htm


#14

[quote=bassman]Did he? Does his arguments necessitate God’s existence? For example: does the argument from contingency necessitate an ultimate source? Why not an infinite regress?
[/quote]

Why not an infinite regress? Because it’s logically impossible. You cannot have, say, a metaverse of infinite possibilities stretching backward an infinite amount of “time” (I suppose the word has to be used very liberally here) and ever wind up with the creation of our universe. It would require the passage of an infinite amount of time for the creation to take place.


#15

I posted on other forums when I couldn’t find my post; my bad.

None of the answers necessitate God’s existence; nor is there an argument that necessitates His non-existence (that I know of). And if there were, we could not say “I believe”, but rather “I know”. What would faith be then? (I personally think the argument from an obligatory moral order is more persuasive). Anyway, I want to know the nature of faith, I guess. If it is not reachable by reason, then why isn’'t any faith as good as another; if it is reachable by reason how is it faith?

Bassman


#16

Oops! I forgot something else: If an infinite regress is repugnant to reason why isn’t an unmoved mover whose atributes cannot be known just as repugnant to reason?


#17

Well if you have to ask…


#18

Rational proofs for the existence of God are doomed to failure. Belief in the existence of God is a matter of faith and not reason. I was educated in the Jesuit system and heard all the rational proofs for the existence of God and they are all logically flawed.

The most honest approach to the question was the Monty Python group who determined the existence of God on the outcome of a wrestling match between the Vicar and an atheist.


#19

Agreed - rational proofs for the existence of God have always been hotly debated. However, if you are interested in philosophy, you might find St. Anselm’s ontological proof for God’s existence fascinating. It is possibly the simplest proof that’s out there. The link below has a small description:

saintaquinas.com/philosophy.html


#20

There are problems with Aquinas’ argument in the Summa. He may be a Saint (my confirmation Saint at that) but his argument is not fool proof. However, there is a modern philosopher who is very good named Robin Collins. Google him and read his arguments from “Fine-Tuning and the Universe” and other intelligent design essays. They are very persuasive and hold up to scrunities of secular logic and philosophical argumentation. My philosophy professor at my secular University thinks he has the most solid argument for the existence of God. Whatever you do, don’t read Plantinga, he teaches at Notre Dame but his arguments are only true if your a Calvinist. Which is impossible for God to be Calvinist because then you cannot solve the problem of evil or free will. Good luck and remember, some things just cannot be proven sufficiently by logic and reason. They can’t be disproven either. Faith is what it all comes down to in the end.
Also St. Anselms ontological argument doesn’t hold up to scrutiny either, but it was very good for his day.


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