Prayers to Mary and the Saints (there is one Mediator only, Christ).—The Bible is plain about whom to pray to and how. John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, Verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. 1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. Never does the Bible teach we are to ask the dead to pray for us, either now, or in the hour of our death. It says plainly to pray to the Father in Jesus’ name, and that Jesus is our living Mediator. We have no mediatrix. Also, it is extremely important to remember God absolutely forbids attempting to communicate with the dead. Catholics think it is no different than asking you or I to pray for them, but you and I are alive. God said: Isa 8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? Also Deuteronomy 18:11. God says seek the living instead of the dead.
Are those in Heaven not living? Death only comes to those non-believers, so seeking the Dead would be those consumed in sin and dwelling in Hell. Additionally, as a Christian do you ask others to pray for you to God? In asking the saints and Mary, that is those living in Heaven, we are doing the same.
Oh but why do I need you or any other Protestant to pray for me. Oh and why would you or any other Protestant agree to pary for me or anyone else? Is it because of your own vanity and you think it will give you bonus points in Heaven? Do you think God will smile upon you for thinking of someone else even though your prayers are completely meaningless. I mean by your argument God/Jesus is the only mediator and we should only pray directly to God. That means there is no point in asking people to pray for us since it won’t do any good. If you don’t beleive this and you think praying for others is not just something to say oh look how careing I am God, I am praying for others even though I believe that it is pointless. If you don’t believe that it is pointless other than vanity then how can you say that Mary and the Saints can’t do the same thing for us? Oh and the poster above me answered your question about not seeking the dead. What God means is don’t use occult and summoning spirits and that kind of stuff.
REVELATION CHAPTER 6
When he broke open the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar 8 the souls of those who had been slaughtered because of the witness they bore to the word of God. 10 They cried out in a loud voice, “How long will it be, holy and true master, 9 before you sit in judgment and avenge our blood on the inhabitants of the earth?” 11 Each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to be patient a little while longer until the number was filled of their fellow servants and brothers who were going to be killed as they had been. 12
REVELATION CHAPTER 8
Another angel came and stood at the altar, 3 holding a gold censer. He was given a great quantity of incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the holy ones, on the gold altar that was before the throne. 4 The smoke of the incense along with the prayers of the holy ones went up before God from the hand of the angel.
There are saints in heaven, they ask “how long” and are told their numbers are not yet complete. They offer prayer, as holy subjects of God like incense…
As it has been said…Any Friend of God’s is a Friend of Mine…good book and worth the easy read [can’t remember the author but you can probably buy it at Amazon]
The word Prayer can be to ask. Haven’t you ever read in old literature books from the middle ages people saying such things as, “Pray thee, sir, what time is it?”
Let me ask you, if you had a sick child would you hesitate to ask your church or the religious people that you know to pray for you. Probably not.
That is all we are doing to Mary asking her to pray for us.
Sometimes Protestants use the word prayer to mean the special type of reverence that we reserve for God alone. This isn’t the manner in which Catholics-or people of long ago- use the term prayer.
Here is the point.
one no matter how you count it is one
You have one mediator between God and man Jesus Christ.
Your eternal high priest. People who are dead are sleeping per what Christ taught us. Christ on the other hand is not sleep he is our high priest before his father.
Now if you claim you are christians and you do not have this basic understanding you indeed are not christians at all. Because Jesus gave us understanding and he gave us the truth. If you say you follow Christ i might want to consider if he is the Christ of God. Because it appears you follow a church and not the rison savior at all.
When we die, we are alive with Christ, and in his actual presence.
You are insulting Catholics with your last paragraph because you are insinuating that we are not Christians.
Last time I checked he was the Christ. And I ask do you ask others to pray for you?
Check this for clarification:
All the answers to your arguments/questions will be there.
So Joseph Smith does not ask another person to pray for him? You have not answered the question.
Also, I guess that you Mr. Joseph Smith would allso never pray for another person because there is only one mediator, Jesus Christ, correct? One and only one. There is no reason to pray for another person because God would not heed your prayer, thinking you were placing yourself in the role of Christ as mediator? :eek:
What saddens me the most about our friend JS and his mission to this site is that these passages he posts demonstrate just how innacurate and mis-representational this brand of so- called Christianity has become.
The willingness to venture down this path, seems to me to be further proof that without the magesterium (teaching authority of the Church) the schismatics just endlessly split into mini denominations all with their own heretical ideas about what constitutes Chrsitianity. All this with the Bible that they got from us!
It is so sad that they are prepared to lie, mis-represent and even re-write history in order to support their attack.
JS- please- forget what these people are telling you and find some history books and read them. Find out and then decide for yourself.
May I recommend this book. You will notice it is not “Propoganda” but written by a respected academic. Once you have read a bit, read some other stuff and cross reference the information. You will reach some startling conclusions about the version of “truth” you have been told!
I emplore you, leave these lies today and start on the road to true understanding!
If you are genuinely interested in what we have to say and are not here simply as a Catholic hater and baiter then you will read the attached articles:
o Joseph Smith does not ask another person to pray for him? You have not answered the question.
Also, I guess that you Mr. Joseph Smith would allso never pray for another person because there is only one mediator, Jesus Christ, correct? One and only one. There is no reason to pray for another person because God would not heed your prayer, thinking you were placing yourself in the role of Christ as mediator?
Living the Journey,
Respect Christ - Vote Life
I have no problem with that. If that is your belief then you are free to believe what you want.
I know that whenever I pray to Mary, I am lead to pray to her Son, whenever I see my large statue of Mary, I feel called to pray and worship the Most Holy Trinity. That is the influence not of a statue but of Mary. That is my belief too!
joseph, i have stated before in my other responses to you, please read the CAF library, and then come back and comment to us. you cannot make a fair statement without knowing what Catholics fully believe.
I agree with you but I think we know he will not read any of the articles we have given him nor is he interested in genuine discussion.
He is simply an anti-Catholic.
O.K. Jesus is the one mediator. But, why do you put limits on the way He mediates? Are you saying it is impossible for Jesus to choose to have Mary intercede for us?
Where does it state in the Bible that Jesus mediates without the intercession of Mary and the saints?
I thought with God nothing is impossible? Am I wrong?
Have you ever asked a fellow church goer to pray for you? If so you just set up a mediator between you and God aside from Christ Jesus… Why not just pray to Christ yourself directly?
Asking a Saint (righteous person in Heaven) to pray for you is no different, and doesn’t add to or take away a single thing that Christ did on the cross.
Let’s see how you answer this conundrum, the Bible claims that “there is NONE righteous, no not one”, yet in the Bible we are also told “the prayers of a RIGHTEOUS man availath much”. How can that be if there is NONE righteous? Hmm could it be maybe Saints already in Heaven could be the righteous conducting prayers that availath much? Revelation seems to point to that…
I am always blow away when I hear people say follow our logic over the word of God. May be this will help. The scripture tells you this “God changes not” That is a Big revelation. So if God changes not. And Jesus restored us to the Father. That is why he came to earth. To restore us to the Father. So you are join heirs with Christ but restored to the Father God.
So you are in Christ Kingdom now but you are also in the aberhamic covenate making you subject to God Almighty and his will. So you have to understand his teaching on his desires and you also have to understand what Jesus taught.
Jesus speaking of Lazerious said he was DEAD. Not he is alive.
In revelation 20:12 and i saw the dead, small and great. 13 also speak of the dead.
When king saul called up the prophet he called him up from his rest. it is refered to as the sleep. The prophet said why have you woken me from my rest.
To be absent form the body is to be present with the Lord. We are in heaven, at least our spirits are. But you are in a state called dead or rest or sleep. At the end of the ages the dead in christ are risen. Risen from what? From death or sleep or rest.
First off God alone is worthy of prayer. He alone is without sin. He alone is God. Angles do not answer prayer nor do saints that have passed on. Nor does any other person answer prayers. Why you might ask. God rules heaven. God does not share his rule of heaven. God also is your God alone the one true God. He does not allow anyone to answer your prayers other then the high priest Jesus and himself.
Angles only do as God instructs them or they are cast out of heaven. Saints no longer deal in the matters of earth. As they have entered into a state of rest.
We on the other hand do pray to God for people and there needs. Yeat we do not pray to gods, As god has said you shall have not gods before me. The actually reading of the first commandment. And the prophet isaiah said you are gods and Jesus confirmed it himself.
Thus God indeed has forbid you from praying to Mary as she is a god under GOD. Just like all christians and all people of the covenate are. That is why you find no holy men or woman of God praying to any one but GOD the father in the bible. We address our prayers to Jesus because he is our one high priest who operates before God the father on our behalf.
So, you meant God is God of the dead?
Mary is not considered a god…she is a person in Heaven…a mediator between us and Christ…My favorite priest once explained in such a way:
When you are wanting something from your father, who do you go to to ask him (in addition to your own asking)? Your mother because of her special relationship with him. Much in the same way, in addition to asking God for things (praying to him) we can ask the Blessed Mother to pray for us as well because of her special relationship with him. Once again she is not considered a God, that would be the first mistake in your perception of the CC.
Ah, but God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Mary, & all the saints are more alive than you & I are, yean. Ye have been deceived.
To be absent form the body is to be present with the Lord. We are in heaven, at least our spirits are. But you are in a state called dead or rest or sleep.
Well,:whacky: which is it?? Are we all asleep, or are we with the Lord?? Ye:nope: dinnae make Heaven sound too attractive, laddy…A place full of:eek: dead people, :eek: walking in their sleep???
Thus God indeed has forbid you from praying to Mary as she is a god under GOD. Just like all christians and all people of the covenate are.
:yawn: Ah, where have I :yawn:heard this before???
That is why you find **no holy men or woman of God **praying to any one but GOD the father in the bible. We address our prayers to Jesus because he is our one high priest who operates before God the father on our behalf.
Ah, weel, now…Here we have a:rolleyes: “holy man of God” talking, do we??? And us all puir sinners are supposed to:bowdown: fall down before him, & beg of this Joseph Smith person fuir him to pray fuir us???..
I think NOT!!!