Does God hate people?

While reading on Monday I came across the verse in Psalm 5 that says of God “you hate all who do evil”.

How can I reconcile this statement with the belief in a God of love and mercy who so loved that word that he gave his Son, and a saviour who demonstrates his love in dying for us when we were yet sinners?

And how can we best respond to those who focus in on verses like these to say God hates sinners (or more usually certain sorts of sinners and sins, not the sins that the person quoting the verse is into). How best should we respond to those Christians who wander around with placards saying things like “God hates faggots”? (Hitting them probably wouldn’t be a good way to go about things but it might be tempting!)

Blessings

Asteroid

In hopes that the system doesn’t lose this - this was a longer post but got lost between here and America.

In Scripture, especially in the Old Testament, God sort of “talks down” to us mere mortals by using words like “hate” and “jealous” to communicate certain concepts that would otherwise not be clear to us.

By saying that He “hates” something or someone, He means that they are intrisically displeasing to Him in a way that is very very dangerous for us.

I believe this is sometimes called “condescending.” It is a useful tactic for any father to bring certain ideas across to his less intelligent children. :slight_smile:

In addition to the previous post’s cogent points, we need to remember one very important difference between God’s judgments and our judgments: God’s are perfect; ours are not.

When we hate, it most often leads to further sin because we are fallible, indeed flawed by original sin. God, OTOH, is incapable of sin. If He does hate, we can be assured that His hatred is perfectly just and is tempered by His perfect mercy.

– Mark L. Chance.

Sometimes, there is a need to explain the unfamiliar with the use of the more familiar. Otherwise, there would be no way to understand or explain God’s ways to men. Thus terms like hate, or God “sees” are used in order to communicate to us certain things which would otherwise be incomprehensible to us.

However, do remember that “hating” or “seeing” does not apply to God in exactly the same way that it applies to mortal beings, but only in an analogous sense. Do you see now why Jesus often used parables to explain what the kingdom of heaven is like?

Gerry :slight_smile:

[quote=asteroid]While reading on Monday I came across the verse in Psalm 5 that says of God “you hate all who do evil”.

How can I reconcile this statement with the belief in a God of love and mercy who so loved that word that he gave his Son, and a saviour who demonstrates his love in dying for us when we were yet sinners?

And how can we best respond to those who focus in on verses like these to say God hates sinners (or more usually certain sorts of sinners and sins, not the sins that the person quoting the verse is into). How best should we respond to those Christians who wander around with placards saying things like “God hates faggots”? (Hitting them probably wouldn’t be a good way to go about things but it might be tempting!)

Blessings

Asteroid

In hopes that the system doesn’t lose this - this was a longer post but got lost between here and America.
[/quote]

Hi Asteroid,
God sends His love out to all, evil and otherwise. His love is always pouring out and wont even change at judgment at the end of the age. Say Afganistan, God did not send the USA to get rid of the taliban. Love is the reason God moves. His love for the ordinary Afgan people outweighed His grief at the killing that would be necessary in love to free them from the taliban. God hated the killing that resulted.Now when He says He hates all workers of iniquity He does but He still goes on loving them and providing for them and He dispairs if they are harmed when He has to rescue suffering people from their grip. So He hates them because they bring grief onto themselves and He suffers with them. Have you ever said or heard it said. during punishment. "This is hurting me more than it is you."
Now we can not hate or think evil of evil people. Paul is a good example. What a rotten sinner he was. What would have happened if Christians had struck out at Paul. This would have cemented his zealousness with hatred and effected his personality. We have no wisdom and do not know when a sinner will be called. Who are we to know the mind of God. Can we say, God will continue to hate that person and I am doing Him a favour.
Look to your heart. If you hate someone, you have hate in your heart and satan comes in and sees and feels your hate and then he pours petrol on your hate and turns it into an all consuming fire. Unchecked your hate can ,through satan, control your life and this hatred will spread out to other people. It is very wise to have no hate so satan can not turn this small sin into a mountain of rage.
We can however exert our authority over Christians as we know where they should stand in the basic truth, which is to act lovingly. Even here we have to be very careful not to bruise the smallest faith.
Christ be with youhttp://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
walk in love
edwinG

[quote=edwinG]Hi Asteroid,
God sends His love out to all, evil and otherwise. His love is always pouring out and wont even change at judgment at the end of the age. Say Afganistan, God did not send the USA to get rid of the taliban. Love is the reason God moves. His love for the ordinary Afgan people outweighed His grief at the killing that would be necessary in love to free them from the taliban. God hated the killing that resulted.Now when He says He hates all workers of iniquity He does but He still goes on loving them and providing for them and He dispairs if they are harmed when He has to rescue suffering people from their grip. So He hates them because they bring grief onto themselves and He suffers with them. Have you ever said or heard it said. during punishment. "This is hurting me more than it is you."
Now we can not hate or think evil of evil people. Paul is a good example. What a rotten sinner he was. What would have happened if Christians had struck out at Paul. This would have cemented his zealousness with hatred and effected his personality. We have no wisdom and do not know when a sinner will be called. Who are we to know the mind of God. Can we say, God will continue to hate that person and I am doing Him a favour.
Look to your heart. If you hate someone, you have hate in your heart and satan comes in and sees and feels your hate and then he pours petrol on your hate and turns it into an all consuming fire. Unchecked your hate can ,through satan, control your life and this hatred will spread out to other people. It is very wise to have no hate so satan can not turn this small sin into a mountain of rage.
We can however exert our authority over Christians as we know where they should stand in the basic truth, which is to act lovingly. Even here we have to be very careful not to bruise the smallest faith.
Christ be with youhttp://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
walk in love
edwinG
[/quote]

Hi again asteroid,
I wasnt going to add this but I dont suppose it will hurt.
As it says in the bible. Love the sinner hate the sin.
Let me explain in practical terms.
I used to hate homosexuals. Then my very wonderful son joined the ranks. Now I love him and he is still a very wonderful person. Now it is very easy for me to hate the sin and love the sinner.
And as we all know, each of us is a sinner, but we all want to be loved.
Maybe my poor son had this affliction just so I could learn to love.
Maybe it is my fault that he was afflicted. As Christ died for our sins so we are afflicted that others may learn. Note Paul be poured out as a drink offering. What comes around goes around.I pray he will be raised on the last day.
Christ be with you
walk in love
edwinGhttp://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

the message of God’s love for man is a constant theme throughout the Bible. man sins - God redeems him. over and over.

in the OT, we see the word ‘hate’ used in ways that we don’t use very often today. even in Jesus’ teachings, we are told to ‘hate our mother and father and our own life’. obviously, in all of these cases, we are not being commanded to HATE people. the greatest commandment is to love God and one another. so there must be another explanation.

there is. the word ‘hate’ is used in these verses as a comparative. it is used to demonstrate a relation between two things. we are to ‘hate’ our lives in comparison to the love that we have for God. we are to ‘hate’ our mother and father in comparison to the love we have for God. ‘jacob have i loved, and esau have i hated’ says the OT. this means that in comparison to the love of jacob, my feelings toward esau seem like hate.

so when the OT talks about God hating those who do evil, it’s not a matter of God hating that person. it’s a matter of comparison, a matter of God’s love for His people making His actions toward them seem like hatred, as He expunges them from their sinfulness - to redeem them.

perhaps an analogy would help. if you’re at the mall, and your precocious child wanders away AGAIN, after being told repeatedly not to, and you lose him for 30 panic filled minutes, finally to recover him playing games in the video store, how would you feel about him right then?

[quote=mlchance]… perfectly just and is tempered by His perfect mercy.
– Mark L. Chance.
[/quote]

Actually, scripture shows evidence of 2 kinds of judgement. One for collectives and one for individuals. Collectives never see damnation as a punitive option. The maximum type of punishment ever metted out to any collective was temporal in nature.

By this observation we can come to this conclusion:

God loves collectives more than He does individuals. On it’s own, this would make sense, as the degree of love, if it could be quantified, would be proportional to the number of individuals. But this doesn’t satisfy either, as we are told God loves everyone to the maximum He can love.

We can come to another conclusion as well, as this obvious fact does not play into rightful justice for us. Let us substitute hate for love for comparison. (Actually hate is not really the word, but a word satisfying the condition of degree of good would be more appropriate.)

God hates a collective, who by individual standards qualifies for damnation, to a lesser degree than an individual who qualifies for damnation.

One is left with one more fact. Some would say “It does not qualify as it is not an individual.”

We would be glad to leave this problem with this solution, but just recently the Pope asked God to forgive nations. Immediatley this implies 1/ it is individuated into substantial form(St.Thomas Aq.) 2/ and given recognition it can offend 3/ by God’s law to us, it is subject to all the expectations and types of punishments an individual would warrant.

Whatever solution we can find, we cannot exclude the factors outlined here. It has officially been initiated into the species called man. It therefore is injustice to grant it special favor, by any standards. “what you bind on earth, is bound in heaven” is promised to us, now man would like to see that applied.

Man waits expectantly to see that indeed the last outlined statement is true, that collectives can indeed go to hell collectively. That would be justice in it’s Devine meaning. A kind that is not corrupted by earthly double standards, but a heavenly non corrupted justice born by God.

We care about our justice system, not because we are on trial, in prison, on death row, in purgatory, in hell, in heaven, on earth but because the ideal for justice is entrenched into our being, and most of all because we care for the future of every man. We want him to be fairly judged.

Andy

It is a corruption of linguistic translation. IN English, we think of love as to fawn over, and hate as to despise. Actually, in biblical terms, love means to serve, hate means to withold service. If you are obedient to God, He favors you with His divine will. If you are intentionally disobedient, He withoholds his favor. Being outside of God’s favor makes you susceptible to the wiles of the devil.

[quote=asteroid]…reconcile this statement with the belief in a God of love and mercy who so loved that word that he gave his Son.
[/quote]

One entity is not applicable, the collective. The collective, it would seem is exempt from redemption has redemption is not required for those who can never see damnation. It has a soul as well, a collective soul that can be judged.

This entity can, pillage,misuse it’s citizens,despoil other lands, write down concupicient mortal sins into laws called decrees,incarcerate without justice,etc but the most it could ever see is earthly death, maiming,beheading,infanticide, but only after a long life span at that.

Oh that God would love us to this degree, that we can never see damnation, can only be worthy of earthy finite death. How can we emulate this entity to be worthy of this?

We have heard of the lamentations from hades, but could it be, perish the thought, that there is some truth coming from it.?

Could the wails of one individual who cries for the answer to why a collective who has sinned before him for the same crime is not there with him, all things remaining equal?

Could it be because of image? Are we witnessing restraint? Of squemishness? What would man say if millions were thrown in at one time? Is earthly smiting all that could be tolerated?

It is my opinion that man does not see a true universal justice, a justice to a nation that sins, to a planet that sins, a galaxy that sins, no… only justice that is applicable to him.

It is no coincidence that we are created quite appropriatly for the inferno, fat content and all. Kindling burns faster and more intensley than the whole tree. Cosmic energy used to build heaven, to keep spiritual beings alive, for miracles, must be regained in this vast recycle furnace. The propensity to sin is a built in scientific fact ensuring the probability the furnace will always be stoked.

… unless of course we have proof of universal, not local justice.

Sign me, ready to be stood corrected,
Andy

[quote=edwinG]As it says in the bible. Love the sinner hate the sin.

[/quote]

edwinG: I dare you to find that phrase in the Bible.:stuck_out_tongue:

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