Does God lie?


#1

Genesis 3:2-7
*The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ”

“You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.*

God imply that if the fruit is eaten or touched you will die. Somewhere in the internet says, Adam and Eve did die; from old age. But isn’t die a present tense so maybe it means a person who eat the fruit will die immediately. So, did God lied?


#2

Hi friend.

First off, God never said they couldn’t “touch it”. What we’re seeing here is the Devil’s subtle ability to breakdown/break apart - his victim. It’s Eve who makes mention they can’t “touch it”. Just an interesting side note:thumbsup:

Now to answer your question. No God did not lie.

In the Ancient Hebrew when the term by God used “you shall die” …the term die would be best translated as " you will die the Death".

So, what happened after they ate of the fruit is they had something worse happen than just dying physically…they died spiritually. The very life of God that was within them…an intimate sharing in God’s own blessed life…was snuffed out.

The couple lived in a world made to their liking! They were placed above AND over everything! They didn’t know pain or suffering or even death. AS SOON as they broke God’s command…we start to see the effects. Shame.

Their gaze which once only looked on their partner with love now turned in on itself and each realizes they are naked, vulnerable, ashamed of themselves and even begin hiding from God when He comes to meet with them.

Because their spiritual life has been effected, the physical is also! This is why they now experience pain, suffering, and at some point physical death.

Hope this helps

God bless


#3

When the doctor tells his patient that if he continues to smoke he will die that doesn’t mean the very next time he lights up he will fall over dead.


#4

God didn’t in His first instructions to Adam and Eve state that if they touched it, they would die. Eve stated that to the serpent and maybe that is how she understood God and that was added by Eve. I think you are trying to make some case that God is a liar. He isn’t and they did eventually die from eating the fruit. But they died spiritually because of their sin and that sin which we all inherited from Adam and Eve.


#5

God does not lie.

Titus 1:2 (NABRE)

2 in the hope of eternal life that God, who does not lie, promised before time began,
(emphasis mine)


#6

Did Jesus say that only the Father knows the day or the hour, but not the Son? Didn’t the Son know the day or the hour? Was it completely true and correct that the Son did not know the day or the hour?


#7

Ah… your point is?


#8

Umm… and you can demonstrate that Jesus, in his human nature, does? :hmmm:


#9

He said only the Father knows the day or the hour. If ONLY the Father knows the day or the hour would that not mean that God the Son does not know the day or the hour and God the Holy Spirit does not know the day or the hour? But we know that God the Son and God the Holy Spirit both have omniscience, so that would be somewhat problematic. .


#10

God never lies, but often speaks to us in analogies and allegories, which are sometimes deceptive given our slow wit.

LOVE! :heart:


#11

One explanation that I’ve read suggests that God, in His divine nature knows, but that Jesus, in His human nature, does not. Therefore, God (Father, Logos, and HS) know, but the son (Jesus, the man) did not know.


#12

And what about God the Holy Spirit? Did God the Holy Spirit know the day or the hour, or was it ONLY the Father who knew the day or the hour


#13

And what about God the Holy Spirit? Did God the Holy Spirit know the day or the hour, or was it ONLY the Father who knew the day or the hour
[/quote]

Sorry for the abbreviation that confused you. “HS” <–> “Holy Spirit”.

The assertion I’m making is that the Father (i.e., Divine Nature) knows, but when making that statement, Jesus (in His Human Nature) did not know.


#14

That is NOT what it says in Matthew 24:36. It says specifically that ONLY the Father knows. You say that God the Son and that God the Holy Spirit know, which is a contradiction to what is written in Holy Scripture.
It reads as follows:
New International Version
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but ONLY the Father.”


#15

sigh

Yes, I know this.

The distinction I’m trying to make is between the Father (i.e., divine nature) and Jesus (the son, in his human nature). Jesus does not specify the Spirit, so you can’t make the assumption that the Spirit doesn’t know (unless, of course, you want to make the assertion that God the Father both desires and wishes to withhold information from the other members of the Trinity… which is absurd).

Therefore, the only interpretation that makes sense is that Jesus is distinguishing between divine nature and human nature.

You say that God the Son and that God the Holy Spirit know, which is a contradiction to what is written in Holy Scripture.

Not a contradiction, but a nuanced explanation.


#16

You are not paying sufficient attention to the word ONLY. It says ONLY the Father knows, which is problematic but relevant to the topic of this thread.


#17

No!

:nope:


#18

You are not paying sufficient attention to the list that Jesus provides in that verse. :wink:

Among the Father, the angels, and the Son, ONLY the Father knows.

(Edited to add the following example: )

Among the Steelers, and Bengals, and the Browns, only the Steelers will be division champs.

This doesn’t mean that the only division champs in the NFL will be the Steelers – but simply that, in the context of that list, only the Steelers will be the division champs. (From my keyboard to God’s ears… :wink: )


#19

The Father is not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not the Father. By the definition of the word ONLY, if I say ONLY A knows, not G and not F, and B is known to be different from A, then B does not know.


#20

That’s a particular interpretation that you’re imposing upon the text. Look again at my football sentence for a counter-example. :wink:


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