Does God really answer prayers?


#62

As explained, not problematic to me. To you, it is.

God is love, He gives us freewill to have the freedom of exercising it. Without freewill, it is not love. We would be like robots. God could do that of course, and maybe there are people who would like it that way - they do not want freewill.

Now is nothing compared to eternity. Maybe like just a blink of an eye. And like all common rule of investment - one has to earn a reward, but with God, the reward of eternal life is much, very much more than we put in during our earthly life time. That’s a measure of his love.


#63

Apparently, you have. Or do you claim that you have no conscience?

A human institution that is more than 2000 years old. That should be enough to prove that it also has a divine dimension.

On that contrary, all that means is that you reject the evidence. We have tons of testimonial evidence of people who’s prayers have been answered in the lives of the canonized Saints. But you won’t believe them because it didn’t happen to you.

Say it ain’t so.

BTW Happy Thanksgiving!


#64

Apparently, what? Do you really try to say that I had a guided tour of heaven and hell, and still chose hell? I should hope that is not what you want to say.

Why would it? You seem to have a very low threshold for “proof”.

Testimonials are worthless. That is why they are rejected in the serious cases in the court of law as “hearsay”. Not to mention that the idea of “answered prayers” is contradicted by the catholic dogma that God is immutable. If God is immutable, then anything would happen if it would be God’s will, whether you prayed for it or not, and nothing would happen if it is contrary to God’s will, whether you prayed for it or not. So any prayer is a waste of time, because God cannot be “thwarted” or influenced. It is pretty sad that you (in general) are irrational, but it much worse that you are also illogical. At least you should be consistent in following your own dogmas.

Happy Thanksgiving to you, too!


#65

If what you say about testimonials is true, why do courts call witnesses to the stand? Wouldn’t they be better off only looking for scientific evidence?

And what do you mean by Thanksgiving? Do atheist celebrate this? If so, who are they thanking–themselves? You can only thank somebody else, can’t you? And if you end up spending the day thanking your parents, for instance, or your friends, wouldn’t that be unnecessary since you have presumably done that all along? It’s like Oprah keeping a gratitude journal, and expressing gratitude, but not knowing to whom.

So I’m to understand you would potentially believe a “road to Damascus” type of experience, but you happen to not believe any of the dozens of such miracles that have already taken place? If so, what would you need to see for you to believe?


#66

The Cowboys are playing the Chargers tonight. Someone, somewhere, is praying for the Cowboys to win. Someone else is praying for the Chargers to win. If the Cowboys win, the Chargers fan may feel that God didn’t answer their prayer. If the Chargers win, the Cowboys fan may feel that God didn’t answer their prayer. Perspective matters.

The atheists you talk about assume that every single prayer has to be answered, or else prayer doesn’t work. They don’t consider that people pray for opposing things. Someone might pray that they get to meet their favorite author at a convention tomorrow, but the author might pray for the event to be cancelled. That’s just one example.

Keep this in mind when confronted with this challenge.


#67

Witnesses are only allowed to testify about their own actual, personal experience, and even that is always under scrutiny. And one piece of physical evidence trumps a hundred testimonies.

Nothing at all. It is just a polite response without any special meaning. Just like when I say: “Merry Christmas”. Simply being polite.

Of course not. Why should I? Would you believe if someone would come to you and testified about the landing of a UFO, with Little Green Men, who took him on a space trip, then cut him up into small pieces, and finally put him back together, without any external sign of this operation?

A very little thing. Not lightning strikes, or spectacular miracles. Just a simple conversation with God, where he would explain the “problem of evil”. Because that is the fundamental “thorn” in the side of Christianity, which renders all their other assertions null and void. Oh, by the way, in such a case I would “KNOW”, and there would no need for this inferior “believe”.


#68

But you have chosen hell? Right?

I should hope that is not what you want to say.

It is you who has repeatedly said it.

Why would it? You seem to have a very low threshold for “proof”.

There’s only one institution that has remained intact for 2000 years. The next closest is the US at something almost 300 years. Plus, the Catholic Church predicted that it would always stand because it was upheld by Jesus Christ. So, you, predictably, deny anything that you don’t want to believe, regardless of the proof.

Testimonials are worthless.

And yet, testimonial evidence is accepted universally in every court of law.

That is why they are rejected in the serious cases in the court of law as “hearsay”.

Hearsay is testimony that is not supported by other testimony or other data. The testimonials for the answers to prayer are supported by the miraculous healing or other phenomenon that are inexplicable by scientific means.

Not to mention that the idea of “answered prayers” is contradicted by the catholic dogma that God is immutable. If God is immutable, then anything would happen if it would be God’s will, whether you prayed for it or not, and nothing would happen if it is contrary to God’s will, whether you prayed for it or not.

Again, you know not of what you speak. God is immutable, but we are not. God’s answers to prayer do not change Him. They change us and our predicaments.

So any prayer is a waste of time, because God cannot be “thwarted” or influenced. It is pretty sad that you (in general) are irrational, but it much worse that you are also illogical. At least you should be consistent in following your own dogmas.

God’s logic is beyond yours. It is because you don’t understand the mind of God that you can’t believe His immeasurable love for us.


#69

Huh? What kind of nonsense is this?

Heck, no. Not “second hand” or “third hand” or “hundred hand” time kinds of testimonials. Only personal testimonials are allowed in court, and even those are not accepted without scrutiny. And one piece of physical evidence trumps a hundred testimonials.

No. Hearsay testimony cannot be supported by other testimonies. If there is actual physical data involved, then it is not a hearsay testimony any more.

Apples and oranges. That would be “meditative” prayer, not “supplicatory” prayer. I am afraid it is you who does not know what she is talking about. (Meditative prayer is just fine.)

That is sheer nonsense. There is only one logic. (Except maybe the “military logic”. :slight_smile: Just kidding, of course.) That “love” does not manifest itself to us in any shape or form that we can recognize. If you Google “famine in Africa” and see those horrible pictures and still retain that God’s love is “immeasurable”, then you should be honest and clarify: “God’s love is so small that it is nonexistent and therefore immeasurable”.


#70

Therein, lies the problem. It isn’t nonsense. In denying God, you’ve chosen hell. That’s unfortunate. You may think that you are free to say whatever you want, whenever you want, and reject the idea that there are consequences to your words and actions, but there are consequences, whether you believe it or not.

And you’re very familiar with them. You’re complaining about them.

Matthew 12:36 I tell you, on the day of judgment men will render account for every careless word they utter;

Heck, no. Not “second hand” or “third hand” or “hundred hand” time kinds of testimonials. Only personal testimonials are allowed in court, and even those are not accepted without scrutiny.

And that’s what we have thousands of. Personal testimonies that are tested and scrutinized to death.

And one piece of physical evidence trumps a hundred testimonials.

We have thousands of those, also.

That’s what I said.

Apples and oranges. That would be “meditative” prayer, not “supplicatory” prayer. I am afraid it is you who does not know what she is talking about. (Meditative prayer is just fine.)

You’re not even in the ballpark. There is nothing about meditative prayer that forbids it being supplicatory.

That is sheer nonsense.

Wow, your powers of argumentation are splendid!

There is only one logic. (Except maybe the “military logic”. :slight_smile: Just kidding, of course.) That “love” does not manifest itself to us in any shape or form that we can recognize. If you Google “famine in Africa” and see those horrible pictures and still retain that God’s love is “immeasurable”, then you should be honest and clarify:

One thing at a time. Focus on yourself. The fact that you live, breathe and have being. Who made you? And why?

“God’s love is so small that it is nonexistent and therefore immeasurable”.

There, see? You’ve made your choice clear again.


#71

I don’t “deny” God. I simply don’t believe that God exists. I don’t “choose” hell. I don’t believe that hell exists. No one has presented evidence either for God or hell. No guided tour.

No one has “made” me. I am here, because my parents had a fun night.


#72

Therefore, you deny God and choose hell. All men are aware of God’s existence. It takes an act of will to deny it. At least, it did for me when I was atheist.

If you are an exception, and I doubt it sincerely, then don’t worry about it. But you know as well as I do, that you have willfully rejected the fact that God exists. And therefore, you know the consequences of that decision.

Lol! And everything just happened by accident. Then you popped out in all your glory?

Try that with a plastic bag. Throw a bunch of proteins in there and shake them around. See if you can make a baby that way.


#73

This is just a polite answer. From now on I will simply ignore whatever you say.


#74

No problem. Thanks for the discussion.


#75

When millions in the holocaust prayed for the Nazis to stop gassing little children to death…why do you think this God says “no” to those millions of prayers?
And yet, the same God is said to have helped us find our car keys or hit a home run in baseball?


#76

I can only say yes, he as answered mine at least 3 times. Is there another explanation? Probably, but I attribute the specific terms and answers in each case to divine intervention. I know there is a price, an I only hope I am up to the task of doing God’s will to pay for my blessings. There have also been many prayers that have gone unanswered, but the really big ones, that have meant the most, have been answered.

I believe, therefore I am at peace with the Lord.


#77

Let’s clarify.

  1. You KNEW that there was a certain sequence of events about to take place.
  2. Then you uttered a prayer.
  3. God listened to your prayer, and decided to intervene on your behalf.
  4. So a completely different sequence of event took place.
  5. And you have some evidence that this change was due to your prayer.

Something is wrong with this picture. :slight_smile:


#78

You’re on a Catholic website what type of answer do you expect to get.


#79

Well, first a couple of things that may or may not have to do with the question.
First, I know the Jews do not accept the fullness of Christ. So, I do not know their ideas of suffering or martyrdom. I also do not know how strong each of their prayers would be.
However, now I shall answer the question. Note that I am not God or anywhere near omniscient, so this is really more a best guess. But, now I finally get to the answer in my opinion and shortly stated on this forum.

You say He answered no, when that prayer was answered. It would be more like a “wait a while” answer.

And also the establishment of Israel was greatly influenced by the acts of Germany during and around WW2.

About car keys, I don’t know too much about all that.


#80

I’ve noticed something interesting about how prayers requesting God’s intercession are asked. It seems believers will ask for the unquestionably miraculous only if no other options are available.

Let me clarify by examples:
If a person’s car overheats in the middle of nowhere and can’t make a call, after it cools down the person might make a little prayer to God before turning the ignition asking that he make it start. On the other hand if something visibly occurs that would prevent a car from moving (say a broken axle) that same person will not pray that God fix the axle. That person may ask God to have a police car come by and find them, but won’t ask for anything that couldn’t possibly occur without praying.

If a person’s car breaks down in the snow, or a ditch, or in a rough neighborhood – some place where safety comes into play – when asking for specific things people don’t ask for the miraculous. They don’t ask to be divinely taken home or have the car whisked away from the danger area and back on the road.

It’s not a matter of a limit to God’s power, but an innate understanding by people that despite promises of ask and thou shalt receive the things to be asked for must be mundane unless there is no other choice. God can just as easily fix a car as he can have a policeman happen to drive by and see you and your car in a ditch, yet only the non-miraculous is specifically asked for in these types of situations.


#81

Yeah. That’s a hard one. But, we can see by the fact that God the Father allowed His Son to be suffer and die upon the Cross, that God does not think of suffering as we do.

Matt 16:The First Prediction of the Passion.[p] 21 From that time on, Jesus began to show his disciples that he[q] must go to Jerusalem and suffer greatly from the elders, the chief priests, and the scribes, and be killed and on the third day be raised. 22 [r]Then Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, “God forbid, Lord! No such thing shall ever happen to you.” 23 He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are an obstacle to me. You are thinking not as God does, but as human beings do.”

One thing we know, God puts the salvation of the soul beyond the suffering of the Body:

1 Peter 4:1 Therefore, since Christ suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same attitude (for whoever suffers in the flesh has broken with sin),

Therefore, I think you’ll find that those who suffered and died in the holocaust, were saved at their final Judgment.


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