Then why are there so few people? Or so many? Why did he wait so long?
This implies God is incomplete.
The beauty of the Catholic Faith is that it is not Unitarian, that is, believes in one God who is one person. We are Trinitarian. If God were unitarian, then I think we could come into the question of was God lonely, or even was God always love if there was a time when it was just the one person. But in the true doctrine, we see that God has always existed as one Being in three Persons. The Father generates the Son, and the love between the two spirates the Holy Spirit. And since they are all God and co-eternal, then this has happened eternally in the past. So God is never lonely. He is Tri-une. The Father always has the Son, the Son always has the Father, and the Holy Spirit is that love in person. Its beautiful!
I don’t understand how at all Bill’s post would imply God is incomplete. If God made creatures to glorify Him, meaning that is their ultimate meaning in life, to glorify God, that doesn’t imply at all that God was incomplete. There is no logical deduction into that. In the eternal past, God ordained to create the material universe, for His pleasure and glory. But that doesn’t necessitate that God didn’t have pleasure or glory before that. Since God is Tri-une, He always has pleasure and glory, the Father in the Son, and the Son in the Father, through the Holy Spirit,
Try studying the concept of perichoresis. Our desire for relationships (and therefore, the feeling of loneliness when deprived thereof) is the result of being created in the image of a God who experiences eternal relationship. He created us not out of a lack on His part, but so that we may experience that relationship.
The statement was made that God created man because he was lonely.
The response was: No, God created man so that there could be creatures that would “glorify him, serve him, and experience his love”
The logic is straightforward. WHY does God need someone to glorify him? WHY does God need someone to server him?
Think of ti this way:
What was the state of God before he created the universe?
What is the state of God now, after the universe was created, with humans serving and glorifying Him?
Is God better off now that humans exist and glorify him? Christian theologians will say that because God is perfect, both before and after the creation of the universe. the state of God is the same.
Hence, the purpose of humans is NOT to glorify and serve him, as that implies God’s is not perfect and complete.
In other words, if you believe God is perfect in every way, then you cannot claim God created man to glorify and serve him.
Where did Bill say that God needed someone to glorify Him? I think he would agree that the Triune God needs no one to glorify Him.
This assertion has no basis. And the logical deduction used for it is faulty. God is perfect even if He creates man to glorify Him. Merely because He creates man to glorify Himself does not imply something lacking or imperfect in God. Using that kind of faulty reasoning, one could say that God created humans with no purpose. But we know He did make humans with a reason, that is, to glorify Him, to reflect the Image of God to the universe. None of this implies anything lacking in God.
If God doesnt need anyone, how did he understand that it would not be good for Adam to be alone? Where did He garner that insight? From being alone himself and understanding that it is not good?
If we are made in His image, and He is a trinity, then that would explain the need for others
it is simple logic. If God is already in a state of perfection, why does he need to change ANYTHING?
This is a theological and metaphysical question.
It basically comes down to the ‘infinite’ claims attributed to God.
For example, an omniscient being cannot be omnipotent, and vice versa. In the same manner, a being that is always perfect being cannot change. As such, God cannot technical do anything, as that means there are two states - for example, God before he created the universe, God after he created the universe. Which one is better?
These are common objections to the traditional theist viewpoint. The theological answer is that even God has limitations. At which point, you’ve solved the problem. But most Christians find this acknowledgement unnerving.
God Created us out of Love… For He IS so wonderful - He naturally Wills to Share Him with us…
God is not experiential. He doesn’t need to go through things to learn things. It’s as if you think that Being made in the image of God means that everything we are God is. That’s not correct.
Your argument again is just assertions. Like I said before, the logical deductions you are making have no relation. Omniscience doesn’t negate omnipotence. There is no necessity for that. You need to prove assertions not just state them and assume they will stand. Your whole argument doesn’t make sense
Now this is a great philosphy thread! Thanks for posting in this discussion everyone.
It absolutely does, by definition. It is ontological.
An omniscient being is one that knows everything.
An omnipotent being is one that can change anything.
By definition, if you already know what is going to happen, you cannot change it. If you can change it, you didn’t know what was going to happen.
But that was just an example - the real point is that if God is perfect, he cannot change. So a God that existed before the universe was created is in a different state than the God that existed after the universe was created. Which one is “more” prefect?
Omnipotence does not mean able to change anything. Omnipotence means having unlimited power. Doesn’t mean that one can do something that logical impossible. Like God can’t make a square circle. A square circle is logically impossible.
So the issues about Gods omniscience would maybe be a fact if one, we define omnipotence wrong, as you did. And second, if we forget about God’s providence. Nothing is outside of God’s control, including the future.
Lastly, I wouldn’t argue that for God to be perfect it means he cannot change, that doesn’t require that. God being absolutely simple would require it. But I don’t see the connection of God changing after He creates all things, for God is outside of space and time, and time is required for change, therefore God being outside of time means he didn’t change
My understanding is that God our Creator Who is Love, created us with love when He created time, and certainly wants us back, which is why He came to earth, died for us, and rose from the dead…
So we can see and have hope for SOME of what awaits us in Heaven if we’re obedient to Him. Not feeling physical pain anymore and being able to walk through locked doors like a spirit, but still eat food with a body, are some of those things.
And since He created feelings and emotions and also cried here on earth as a Man, we can know He DOES have compassion and cares. He is our God, Who became vulnerable like us, and cried alone at Gethsemane.
He was consoled by His angels who STILL serve Him!
but still He knew He had to go through with it so that Heaven would be open again. All of which proves to me anyway that He definitely wants us all back.
God doesn’t suffer - He is “impassible.”
Jesus suffered in His human nature.
That is a fascinating point-that He wants us back!
To me, that would indicate that he was lonely for the ones He created and needed to create a way back.
To me, this indicates that God is indeed emotional and that it was not Just that when Jesus was here, it was His flesh that made him weep in the garden.
Remember in Genesis when He assessed His creation and saw that it was good.
Isnt satisfaction an emotion?
Since when is God Alone?