God is Merciful infinite Loving Father. If one of his child dont want to do anything with Him, wouldnt he do as His child wishes? Wouldn he allow a place where He is not present for His children? It hurts, but out of Love He let us go…
If you know Catholic Teachings: Scriptures and/or Magisterium,
You know that God’s Mercy is conditional…
In order to be forgiven we too must forgive.
God grants Mercy to those who are Merciful.
Hell? Consider those who freely and totally reject - do not want - God.
They refuse Heaven. To not go to Heaven is as a hell.
Do you have an example of such a person? And I am talking about actual rejection, not some wishy-washy argument: “if you do this, then you reject God” or the opposite “if you DON’T do this, then you reject God”. I met many atheists in my life, but none of them explicitly rejected God. Many of them actually wished that there would be a God, but they honestly find the evidence insufficient.
"Do you have an example of such a person? And I am talking about actual rejection… "
Person? I know of no specific human including Judas Iscariot
I’m not the Judge of the souls.
Angels yes… Satan and those who follow him are The Examples.
Mortal sin is a rejection of God.
Yes… and it is the 3rd Condition for a Sin to be Mortal - which when Understood, underscores said Rejection. That said, those whom fulfilled all three conditions are Called to Repent or begone…
CCC - SIN - Excerpts
1855 Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God’s law; it turns man away from God
1856 Mortal sin, by attacking the vital principle within us - that is, charity - necessitates a new initiative of God’s mercy and a conversion of heart which is normally accomplished within the setting of the sacrament of reconciliation:
When the will sets itself upon something that is of its nature incompatible with the charity that orients man toward his ultimate end, then the sin is mortal by its very object . . . whether it contradicts the love of God, such as blasphemy or perjury, or the love of neighbor, such as homicide or adultery. . . .
1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."131
1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft.
1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice.
1860 Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.
1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God’s forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ’s kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back.
REF: CCC - SIN - http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a8.htm
The title of this post… made into a statement is the answer. Hell exists because God does love us. or in answer to your question of the post, Yes.
Yes, this is correct, but needs details. The major problem is the “full knowledge”. What does it mean? The question of “grave matter” is also problematic. Not everyone agrees what constitutes a grave matter. When I had conversations with atheists, they simply did not agree that sexual acts where procreation is made impossible is a grave matter. And if they do not agree, then how could they have “full knowledge” about the subject?
delete this post
Your understandable argument is fatally flawed on a Catholic Forum for reason that The Church has no problems with their Teachings as Truth wrt Sin: Mortal and Venial. and neither do I. In a Catholic Forum - Catholics do not deal with Teachngs as if they’re Opinions subject to debate so as to determine whether or not they’re really True.
Moving right along… e.g., Murder is always Grave, yet can occur via someone who does not believe that it is… Condition 1.
Someone who Knows Murder is Grave - yet murders - fulfills condition 2
Someone who knows that Murder is Wrong along with knowingly facing God and His Command, and fully willfully knowingly purposely DisObeys God - commits condition 3;
AND unless one repents of such a mindset and heart which fully opposes GOD - said one in essence is willfully rejecting God and His Heaven - and therefore said soul/spirit shall therefore Not enter God’s Kingdom which only accepts purity … and thus … shall in essence be the one (not God) who winds up in a place sans Love aka Hell.
God/Love wants all to Enter INto His Kingdom – and He Hates SIN …
Those who wind up in Hell are there, of course not because God LOVES them and ergo Hell,
but because those who SIN FULLY MORTALLY, have only their own will which opposes God’s Will - as blame…
The wording is important: “they must be aware that the act is a grave matter”… but they are not aware of this. They may be wrong, I do not dispute this. But “to be aware of something” is a subjective stance. They may be aware that in the church’s opinion it is a grave matter, but since they do not accept that the church is an authority, they are not aware that the act IS a grave matter. As such they do not fulfill the requirement that they must be aware that “action X is a grave matter”. This is not a semantic game.
Using your example of “murder”. For many people a “mercy killing” is NOT murder, it is an act of mercy, an act of love. So when they commit an act of mercy killing, in their eyes it was not a grave matter. So they did not commit a mortal sin. In their eyes it may be that elongating the suffering is grave matter.
Let’s leave it God to separate the goats from the sheep. We are not qualified for that task.
When I was a little boy, and misbehaving, I would run and hide when I heard my father’s car as he came home from work; I did not want to be near him because I knew myself, my “sin”. Sometimes I wanted my sin more than him.
God is a consuming fire; you have heard how the Seraphim ablaze because they always are gazing on him.
When we enter heaven, we are entering an “unbearable fire”, yet we walk right in, because it is our Father, our Brother, our Life - we walk right in with the words, “Here I am, for you, Lord,” and let God have us within himself (just as he poured himself into us to create and save us and feed us; he gave us his Life, and we return our life to him, entering into the eternal reciprocation of Love, of pouring the self into the beloved - “daddy, you can have me!”)
But, there is a case where we are told that some do not want to enter the fire; it is all around when we die, but we avoid entering the fire (which would be LIFE) because we are trying to keep our own life and the fire is giving up my own life, just as when I was a child, going to see my father when I was bad was equal to losing my self.
Again… you’re repeating the same flawed argument…
Yes - Let us avoid all semantics at all costs.
Murder is Always Murder because God Deems it so…
The fact that it’s Grave - is independent of anyone else’s opinion, belief, you name it!
Anyone who commits murder - Whether Atheist, Christian or Thugee - knowingly or not -
has indeed fulfilled the 1st condition a Mortal/Grave sin…
Next: For starters - Aware…immediately connects with the 2nd Condition of Mortal
Embedded in the heart/conscience of all Man - is the condemnation of Murder.
We find this exhibited in the universal “Golden Rule” -
accepted as The Morality tenets by all the ancients
God introduced as Teaching for all … the 10 Commandments…
From the very get-go Cain and Abel - Man knew… Murder is instinctually wrong.
That some reject God’s Teachings does not overturn them.
God never told me that mercy killing is a murder. As soon as he - himself -will tell me, I will accept his word. And it would be very useful if God would explicitly tell us, just what is a “murder”. Because it is one of the loosely defined concepts.
The golden rule has nothing to do with it.