Does Humanae Vitae spiritually kill most Catholic’s souls?


#1

[left]Hello All,[/left]
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[left]In reading some of the threads on birth control, it is the view of some that up 90%, of one billion Catholics, disobey Pope Paul VI and Pope John Paul II’s, Humanae Vitae. It is said that these Popes have used the authority of the “Keys to the Kingdom” to bind artificial birth control as a mortal sin. Some say that the Pope does not bind the Protestants in the same way he binds Catholics when he uses the “Keys to the Kingdom”. Are Catholics bound to two thousand years accumulation of papal bindings while Protestants, inside the Church through their baptism, are free from the authority of the “Keys to the Kingdom"?[/left]
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[left]Obviously using the “Keys to the Kingdom” to bind sins to souls is a very deadly deterrent (spiritually deadly). I know of very few Catholics, who otherwise are very obedient to God, who plan to repent of using condoms, [font=‘Times New Roman’]vasectomies or tube tying. If the Pope can bind condoms as mortal sin, then Humanae Vitae has potentially to [font=‘Times New Roman’]decimated the Catholic population in heaven. [/font]Should not Protestants benefit from papal spiritually deadly deterrents as well as Catholics? Jesus never put any limits on which humans Apostolic Successors could bind to sin. Should the Pope discontinue limitting His Christ given authority to only Catholics?[/font][/left]
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[left]What do you think?[/left]
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[left]**NAB MAT 16:13 **[/left]
Jesus replied, “Blest are you, Simon son of John! No mere man has revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. I for my part declare to you, you are ‘Rock,’ and on this rock I will build my church, and the jaws of death shall not prevail against it. I will entrust to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you declare bound on earth shall be bound in heaven; whatever you declare loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” Then he strictly ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com


#2

Remember, Birth Control is a deadly sin regardless of Humanae Vitae…So yes, and no…Yes it is a Sin, but not just because of Humanae Vitae. The Church has always taught this.

Similarly Protestants sin by using birth control, but would not be bound if it were only a Papal declaration…

Now I hope thats clear…(makes sense to me…but then I wrote it, eh?).


#3

that’s between them and God… i suggest that you look more for the timber in your eye and worry less about the splinter in your neighbor’s eye… :cool:


#4

[quote=Steven Merten]What do you think?
[/quote]

I didn’t respond to the poll because I didn’t find a choice that properly articulates my own opinion. Either the Holy Spirit inspired the writings of the Holy Father regarding birth control or not. Therefore, it is either a command of God or it isn’t a serious sin. I happen to believe that artificial birth control is a serious sin, but I am pretty sure that a lot of nominal Catholics don’t know this because it is rarely preached or taught by the clergy. So, neither the Popes nor their writings are responsible for the condition of anyone’s soul.

The problem with most serious sin is that we prosperous “enlightened” people in the 21st Century West assume that we are “owed” a pleasant, convenient, happy, painless, indulgent life. Out of this culture has grown a distrust and wholesale rebellion of God’s will. If it wasn’t birth control, it’d be something else. I bet most of the “Catholics” who use birth control have also rebelled against the Church’s teaching on fornication or sexual purity in general.

I’d like to see statistics comparing the attitudes of people who practiced sexual purity until marriage with those who did not on the issue of artificial birth control. I’d bet my savings that a strong correlation exists between obedience to the Church’s teaching on sexual purity and the Church’s teaching on birth control.

This trend would likely be seen in the Protestant faiths as well. I know Protestants who just don’t feel right about birth control. These same people have lived chaste lives before marriage.

Just my 2 cents.


#5

Contraception is against natural law, and as such, is grave sin for Catholics and non-Catholics. All those who commit grave sin with full advertence and perfect consent of will, and remain impenitent unto death regarding such sin, risk eternal damnation.


#6

“The natural law, present in the heart of each man and established by reason, is universal in its precepts and its authority extends to all men.” (CCC 1956)

“in urging men to the observance of the precepts of the natural law, which it interprets by its constant doctrine, teaches that each and every marital act must of necessity retain its intrinsic relationship to the procreation of human life.” (Humanae Vitae, 11)


#7

[quote=itsjustdave1988]Contraception is against natural law, and as such, is grave sin for Catholics and non-Catholics. All those who commit grave sin with full advertence and perfect consent of will, and remain impenitent unto death regarding such sin, risk eternal damnation.
[/quote]

Not only natural law.

Also Jewish law. See jewfaq.org/sex.htm
There are many parallels between Jewish law and current Catholic teaching.

I am in RCIA.


#8

I do believe it is expected of all of us to not use birth control. As for the papal issue, I’m not convinced that the Pope was infallible simply because Peter is the rock. I feel birth control is wrong because it is murder, not because the Pope said so.


#9

[quote=Adam Costanzo]I do believe it is expected of all of us to not use birth control. As for the papal issue, I’m not convinced that the Pope was infallible simply because Peter is the rock. I feel birth control is wrong because it is murder, not because the Pope said so.
[/quote]

Hello Adam Costanzo,

So you are saying that using a condom, though no conception occurs, is murder? Does Pope John Paul II and Pope Paul VI state this in Humanae Vitae? Can you direct me to such a statement?

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com


#10

[quote=Steven Merten]Hello Adam Costanzo,

So you are saying that using a condom, though no conception occurs, is murder? Does Pope John Paul II and Pope Paul VI state this in Humanae Vitae? Can you direct me to such a statement?
[/quote]

Perhaps not murder. However, it is a sinful act.


#11

It might help to keep in mind the difference between something objectively sinful and subjectively sinful.

Given the poor state of catechesis, one might hesitate about expounding about all the sinners; sinnig requires knowledge, and many, if not most, don’t have that.


#12

[quote=JimO]I didn’t respond to the poll because I didn’t find a choice that properly articulates my own opinion. Either the Holy Spirit inspired the writings of the Holy Father regarding birth control or not. Therefore, it is either a command of God or it isn’t a serious sin. I happen to believe that artificial birth control is a serious sin, but I am pretty sure that a lot of nominal Catholics don’t know this because it is rarely preached or taught by the clergy. So, neither the Popes nor their writings are responsible for the condition of anyone’s soul.

The problem with most serious sin is that we prosperous “enlightened” people in the 21st Century West assume that we are “owed” a pleasant, convenient, happy, painless, indulgent life. Out of this culture has grown a distrust and wholesale rebellion of God’s will. If it wasn’t birth control, it’d be something else. I bet most of the “Catholics” who use birth control have also rebelled against the Church’s teaching on fornication or sexual purity in general.

I’d like to see statistics comparing the attitudes of people who practiced sexual purity until marriage with those who did not on the issue of artificial birth control. I’d bet my savings that a strong correlation exists between obedience to the Church’s teaching on sexual purity and the Church’s teaching on birth control.

This trend would likely be seen in the Protestant faiths as well. I know Protestants who just don’t feel right about birth control. These same people have lived chaste lives before marriage.

Just my 2 cents.
[/quote]

I don’t know that I would advise betting all your savings. I suspect that a correlation exists between the use of birth controll and other sexual sins, but I also suspect that there are more people who get to the altar before the bed than there are who do not use birth control. The correlation is there (particularly if you have much of a historical view of birth control in the last 100 years). But it may not be quite as strong as you suspect.


#13

If a Catholic didn’t know that birth control was a mortal sin (eg. they think it is a venial sin), then they wouldn’t be committing it with full knowledge, and it therefore wouldn’t be a mortal sin, right? Thus they could still achieve salvation, correct? For example, I always knew mastrubation was a sin, but only found out a few months ago that it was a mortal sin. So, I don’t doubt that there are some Catholics that don’t know. Yes, I think it is their responsibility to educate themselves, but…

Eamon


#14

what would be the effect on a person’s life, and on their immortal soul if Humanae Vitae had never been written? If that person practiced artificial birth control, the same evil effects would occur. outside marriage the sexual act would lose all the joy and divine spark and become mechanical exploitative pleasure seeking with no higher value and purpose. In marriage the sex would not bring unity and intimacy since the barrier is erected between husband and wife, and after years of marriage the wife will consider herself as having been used as a sex object, and the husband will realize that when his sexual performance fails, so will his wife’s regard for him. People would go to hell because they degraded their own human nature and sexuality to the level of animals as slave to instinct.

children that should have been born, grown up to find a cure for cancer, fill our churches with holy priests and sisters, raise good Catholic families, fight social injustice, fight our wars, create our music and literature and art, will have never been born, and the good they were intended to do will never benefit the world.

The popes bind mortal sins because they are deadly to individuals, to families, to societies. They name these sins mortal because they kill the body and moreover kill the soul. They did not become mortal sins because the popes issued a proclamation, the popes issued their teaching because the sins are mortal.


#15

[quote=turboEDvo]If a Catholic didn’t know that birth control was a mortal sin (eg. they think it is a venial sin), then they wouldn’t be committing it with full knowledge, and it therefore wouldn’t be a mortal sin, right? Thus they could still achieve salvation, correct? For example, I always knew mastrubation was a sin, but only found out a few months ago that it was a mortal sin. So, I don’t doubt that there are some Catholics that don’t know. Yes, I think it is their responsibility to educate themselves, but…

Eamon
[/quote]

[font=Comic Sans MS]In the case of meeting the full conditions of mortal sin, your salvation is only as strong as your weakest link. Of course only God can know and judge a person. [/font]
[font=Comic Sans MS][/font]
[font=Comic Sans MS]This is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church has to say to your above point of responsibility to educate ourselves: “It is important for very person to be sufficiently present to himself in order to hear and follow the voice of conscience…Yet is can happen that moral conscience remains in ignorance and makes erroneous judgments about acts to be performed or already committed. This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man ‘takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin’. In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits, (CCC 1779, 1790-17910)’ and “[/font]By prayer we can discern “what is the will of God” and obtain the endurance to do it”, (CCC 2826).

I have to wonder how many Catholics (and Protestant) believers take a “don’t ask, don’t tell” approach to not responding to God’s initiative to speak to them through their conscience. I know that I do not always want to enthusiastically respond to my conscience when feeling unease or conviction for a “comfortable” sin habit or attitude that God has determined is now the time to address.


#16

[quote=puzzleannie]The popes bind mortal sins because they are deadly to individuals, to families, to societies. They name these sins mortal because they kill the body and moreover kill the soul. They did not become mortal sins because the popes issued a proclamation, the popes issued their teaching because the sins are mortal.
[/quote]

Very well stated, and would add the Pope’s own words to what you say about sin (intrinsic evil) does not become sin simply because the Pope proclaims it so:

[font=Comic Sans MS]“It is absolutely necessary that the pastoral action of Christian communities to be totally faithful to the teachings of the encyclical Humanae Vitae and the Apostolic Exhortation Familiaris Consortio. It would be grave error to set up pastoral requirements in opposition to doctrinal teaching, since the very first service that the Church must perform for people is to tell them the truth of which she is neither the author nor the master”, John Paul II (Osservatore Romano, June 6, 1983).[/font]


#17

But say for example (and do pardon the lame example, for lack of a better one at the moment) that in 20 years that the Pope proclaimed that posting on internet forums was a mortal sin. Is that to say that all of us, who didn’t have the good fortune of discerning this earlier and didn’t see the harmful effects it had on our souls, are in for eternal damnation?

Eamon


#18

[quote=turboEDvo]But say for example (and do pardon the lame example, for lack of a better one at the moment) that in 20 years that the Pope proclaimed that posting on internet forums was a mortal sin. Is that to say that all of us, who didn’t have the good fortune of discerning this earlier and didn’t see the harmful effects it had on our souls, are in for eternal damnation?

Eamon
[/quote]

of course not, becaue you didn’t do it with full knowledge of the wrong to begin wiht… but as a Catholic, it is your full responisbility to keep up to date on the latest from Rome… hope that helps…

God Bless–JMJ
Laura :slight_smile:


#19

Does the Pope ever look at a profit and loss graph when considering the use of the “Keys to the Kingdom” to hold bound or hold sins loost? Does he say to himself, “Wow, Humanae Vitae can potentially add up to the heavenly loss of 900,000 souls of Christ’s one billion Catholics. The loss of Protestant souls to Humanae Vitae is equally horrifying. But I, the Pope, am still going to enforce condom use as a mortal sin with the ‘Keys to the Kingdom’. I still plan no preaching blitz to change such a tragic Church course”

In business or government such potential high losses to a primary goal would certianly cause great alarm and intense study on how to reverse such losses. Stock holders, citizens and owners would demand changes. What do you think the Church’s Boss thinks of such potential high losses of spiritual life to Humanae Vitae?

It is disscussed in this thread that Christians are not getting a proper amount of teaching from Church leaders to know that condom use will take their eternal life. If I were in command of one billion Catholics and potentially 900,000 of them could be lost to eternal damnation over condom use, this would become my number one priority. Capital punishment, war or any of the other physical death issues, that appear to be the Pope John Paul II priorities, seem to be but a drop of water compared to the ocean sized catastrophy of potential spiritual death destruction that Humanae Vitae appears to be capable of? If Humanae Vitae is capable of damning so many souls, I would think that Church leaders must make a full reversal on where the Pope spends his mass media opportunities, where Bishops spend their time shoring up weak areas and where Priests devote homily time at Mass.

This is, of course, if Church leaders truly believe that condom use and tube tying is as spiritually deadly as they say it is.

What do you think?

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com


#20

I think you’re trying to start a fight.

I think you ought to read Puzzleannie’s post.


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