Does Jesus' incarnation prove aliens don't exist?

I should elaborate a little- does it mean that ‘enlightened’ or ‘saved’ aliens don’t exist.

Like many I have often considered the incomprehensible vastness of the universe and whether extra-terrestrial life exists.

My personal conclusion is that that probably don’t, but I do have a reservation in stating this, as it seems to be attached to a level of arrogance.
My logic is that space travel is impossible beyond our closest neighbours. Therefore, we are meant to exist surrounded by seemingly infinite space, which itself points to God.

Leaving this argument aside and coming to the titled topic- if God created intelligent life on other planets, it seems logical that this life either fell into sin, too, or God was able to overcome this with a ‘future creation’. However, the presence of the fallen angels, in particular Satan, would suggest that they would be just as susceptible if his creations were given free will.
We see Christ as the second person of the trinity, but also one with the Father, having always existed, but incarnate from year 0. We note that there was a great falling away of angels from God, where around 1/3 departed from the Father. I believe this is after Creation, since the idea is that the angels could not subscribe to God’s plan to create mankind, whom he would elevate above the angels in heaven- particularly the Blessed Mother.
It seems to fall, then, that any creatures created on other planets prior to our own would be susceptible to fall after the fall of Lucifer, or any created after our own would already be compromised.

We would have to presume that God, in His infinite goodness, would seek reconciliation with his extra-terrestrial fallen creatures. However, in our concept of God, it seems to preclude Him becoming a physical person, as with Jesus. Why- because our concept of the trinity restricts God into these three persons.
Our God could have become many hundreds of persons in other places in the universe. We would have to argue that the trinity here on earth also applies to other planets. Each has the trinity, but the visible person of the physical God (the second person) would be different depending on the species on that planet.

However, it comes down to the Passion. Would God endure countless sacrifices of his own life, possibly with even more horrific pain on other planets, to win over another planet? I suppose it comes down to love. An all-loving God should want to save all his peoples.

But there seem to be two points here.
First, God punished the earth and its people for turning away, on many occasions. After the flood and periods of desolation, He chose Israel to begin a reconciliation with mankind. This implies our God is not chasing us to love Him. He waits. He wants genuine love. Therefore he doesn’t perhaps crave the love of all of His creations all around the universe to the point he would readily go to each and every planet, winning over His peoples and eventually giving up His life.

Second, if we were someday to understand that there is extra-terrestrial ‘saved’ life, and that it was saved in the same way, in our human hearts would this not degrade the one-time sacrifice on the cross? I.e. if we knew this event had be undertaken time-and-again throughout the universe and beyond. The one-time suffering would almost become ‘routine’.

Although this is still the greatest sacrifice God can possibly offer- to die at the hands of His people, is it akin to a man who takes a bullet for his wife- the same man who previously pushed a stranger out of the way of a speeding car? Whilst the wife sees this as an act of great love, it is diminished since it was offered before, to a ‘lesser’ person. Let’s face it, looking at our own creation and existence, we would see outsiders as ‘lesser’ or of less favour with God, after thousands of years of belief in our own God-given creation.

This has wandered a little as part of my own thought processes- sorry if it’s a little waffly! But my conclusion seems to be that this sacrifice by God, on the cross, seems to suggest that we alone are God’s creation.

I really welcome your thoughts and discussion!

There is no reason why God could not have other creations and have redeemed then differently. Or perhaps they didn’t even need redeeming?

We find the phrase “once for all” in several places in the Letter to the Hebrews, and echoed in 1st Peter. Paul in 1st Timothy says something similar, that Christ died for all, but the word “once” is not included there. We do NOT find “once for all” in Jesus’s words in the gospels.

Our ancestors who wrote about the incarnation did so from the perspective that there is no such thing as extra-terrestrial life. The whole idea was inconceivable to them. The only planets they knew about were seen as wandering stars, not as other worlds with other moons potentially capable of harboring life, and definitely not with life capable of understanding God nor needing a savior.

So when the writer of the Letter to the Hebrews wrote that Christ died “once for all” he were only thinking of all life on this world. The disciples could spread the news through all the lands and all the generations - on this planet only - that we had been the recipients of God-made-man for the benefit of all mankind.

But what good is this message in a place which has no way to receive it?

The great thing about God is that He is greater than human limitations. If God chose to create intelligent life on other worlds, God is more than capable of manifesting Himself as a savior to those other worlds in whatever form is necessary. Can you imagine for even one moment that God who creates all life, and loves everything He creates, would choose to abandon to hell all but a fragment of what He creates? I know some think that, but I don’t.

And there is no way that any ancient human writer who writes “once for all”, but only pictures “all life” from his ancient myopic perspective and limited understanding, can limit God.

A good discussion on this can be found in C.S. Lewis’ The Space Trilogy (Out of the Silent Planet, Perelandra, and That Hideous Strength).

I believe Chesterton, possibly in Heretics or perhaps Orthodoxy, makes the point that some people use the possible existence of ETs to disprove the existence of God, while others use the logic that the lack of ETs disproves the existence of God. Truth be told, it should have no affect on what we believe.

Now, if there were other rational creations by God that we have not yet discovered, what are the odds that they look like us? Well, not like ‘us’ as we are, but ‘us’ in the sense that we were created in the image and likeness of God?

:thumbsup:

Sorry, this bothered me. I guess my mind got stuck between “should not affect” and “should have no effect”. I kindly beseech mercy from the Court of Grammar, but willingly accept their punishment…

I don’t know that the Incarnation tells us one way or another the answer to whether there could be intelligent beings in other planets.

I’ve often considered the same thing but remembered that we can’t put a limit on God’s power. We can’t even begin to describe what God can do. Remember, nothing is impossible through God. Nothing.

Sing 3 choruses of Weird Al’s “Word Crimes” and sin no more :wink:

Back to the OP – whether Spock exists has no bearing on my belief that Jesus is God. My belief that Jesus is God has no bearing on whether or not Spock exists.

In this incredible large and endless Universe why can’t the Lord create other peoples on other planets? It seems this very large vast Universe can point to such a discovery. The farthest object we can detect by the instruments we have invented is a light source that is approx. 14 billion light years away from us. That means for us to detect that light source it must have travelled 14 billion years to reach us. This is definitely not a young Universe. It does not suppress my faith if God has many other earths which He wants to make. That is His business and I am very happy for Him if He has chosen to do this. It doesn’t really matter to me if these same planets need salvation in the same manner as we do. Again this is God’s business. We forget about the story of the Lord Jesus telling Peter who was fleeing the persecution of Rome that unless Peter goes back to Rome the Lord Jesus would go to Rome to be crucified a second time. Of course Peter changed his mind and went back to Rome. Why can’t God create many other earths so that He has many more opportunities to fill His life with more people? May be God creates one planet at a time and we are the only one in the Universe right now. After us He creates another planet. May be He has already created many other earths before creating us. In the time scheme of the Universe the timeline from Adam to us is not that long. Perhaps other earths were already created before us and have concluded their histories. It is astonishing that no saint or anyone else who had a visit from the Lord Jesus ever asked Him about this!

How can you tell the difference between an ET and a fallen angel in physical form? Isn’t that a real danger? I don’t think you can.

Is it possible for the Father or Holy Ghost to become incarnate? Or is this heresy?

It is a thin line between religion, science and science-fiction?

Id like to know how could reach a conclusion that aliens probably dont exist?, especially when taking into consideration, how vast the universe is, and how many planets are likely out there, even experts today admit there are probably millions upon millions of other intelligent civilizations out there, since they made the discovery that our little planet and its distance to the sun, and other factors are not that rare in even our system.

Also, you must factor in how creative our God is, look at the variety of life just on this planet, all the way back to the dinosaurs, its very clear to me God is extremely creative and probably has been making civilizations LOOOONG before we were made, and also has probably made many more after us as well, why would a creative god just stop after one creation…doesnt make sense and is not logical imo.

Personally, I believe there are more intelligent civilizations out there than we could even count, more than millions upon millions, but Im generally only interested in the ones visiting earth. This has also been proven…in the numerous statements made by some presidents, and others involved in Govt and military, too many Govt documents make reference to the subject as well for there to be nothing to it.

If you like I can provide you with a long list of statements and quotes from people in high places saying things about this subject…its amazing how much some of them know about this!

Thanks for the response. It does beg the question though- of multiple civilisations around the universe, is there one heaven?
If so, then our Queen of Heaven, Mother Mary, is a queen-among-many? To me, this just doesn’t follow.
Or, is heaven a by-product of our fallen nature- i.e. the unplanned split between body and soul?
Does God have to go around dishing out final judgements on millions of planets, setting things right?
If He has created eternal beings on other planets, it surely follows that the ones who (possibly) travel to earth are not eternal beings as they travel in a machine. Therefore one would assume that these are not eternal beings who hold the beatific vision, and therefore they have yet to be saved.

No one on earth can tell us what Gods relationship with beings on another planet could possibly be like. There are so many variables, its almost pointless to even speculate about it, unfortunately this is something God left out and did not seem to think we needed to know about.

Its also impossible to determine what kind of souls these other beings have, Im sure they are born, created and eventually die though, (Im 99% sure of that), they may even have lifespans similar to ours, but their main advantage is how long their civilization has been around, Humans are not that old when looking at the BIG picture, so its only natural, some other races of beings on another planet, possibly created by God millions or even trillions of years before humans were, that, in that time, they have developed some very high technology, if humans are still around in the year 9500, Im fairly sure if we saw a glimpse of their world, it would not look anything like our world today, planet to planet and even travel to other solar systems would probably be common place by then.

So, imagine that in the earth year 9500 (7486 yrs from now), we come across a new solar system and the people there are similar to what we are in 2014…to those people, WE would be aliens, they would be asking themselves questions just like the ones we poner about with the races that are visiting our planet right now, but in truth, we are just another one of Gods creations, but just have been around a whole lot longer.

Plus, technology is always going to be progressing as long as a particular race is alive, breaking into new areas of science we only theorized about before, instead of the year 9500, now, just imagine what the planet earth and what will be common place in the year 20,500!!!, (if we make it that long) Could you imagine what kind of technology we will have by then? LOL I cant even begin to guess, but I know most of it, we would call impossible in todays terms.

I do think God puts limits on his creations though, Im not sure if God would allow a civilization to reach a technological level, where they could beat death…I mean, what would happen to a race if they literally developed a method to stop someone from ever dying? Its crazy to think about, but given enough time, I do think a race probably would reach such a thing.

Interesting reply, there, thank you.

I’m kind of more thinking about the salvation side of things. We have a lot of end-times talking going on now, early as we are, in perspective, in 2014.

If some of these other civilisations reach 20,550 or somesuch, they must be very virtuous, or probably never had ‘the fall!’.

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