Does Our Lady speak about Contraception? If not, why?

It seems to me the act of Contraception may be the most impactful mortal sin in this day and age. Our Parishes should be brimming over with children - but sadly they are filled with gray heads. Humane Vitea and the warnings in this have seem to be prophetic.

So quick question - does anyone know if Our Lady has ever appeared (in approved apparitions) and specifically warned us to avoid Contraception?

If not - what might be the reasons that this sin has not been specifically addressed by Her repeatedly similar to how much the Rosary has been promoted?

Note: Both Our Lady and Saint Joseph during their lives remained very silent on the sins of the world - so I don’t by any means cast blame on our Lady since their silence during their lives was certainly within the Will of God.

If that were the case, then why wouldn’t she also speak against abortion, murder, rape and every other serious sin out there?

The Church speaks very clearly about these things. There isn’t any need for some sort of heavenly “approval” to emphasize the seriousness of it.

Also, while there are degrees to the seriousness of sin, all mortal sin is the same in that, if done freely and with sufficient knowledge, creates an absence of grace within the soul. In that respect, all mortal sin is the “most impactful.”

Just this morning I was marveling at how many young couples with young children there are in our pews. There is an abundance of infants, toddlers, young children, all the way up through high school.

With three children of our own, our family is somewhat on the smaller side, believe it or not.

My kids are altar servers and there are so many others who serve that mine don’t even do one Mass a month sometimes.

I know this doesn’t answer your question, but maybe does shed a little optimism to your observation. :slight_smile:

In some of her (approved) messages, she does speak against some sins - and greatly against sin in general (going so far to provide visions of hell). So I’m wondering if she has spoken against Contraception specifically and if not, what might be the reason due to it’s direct impact on the population of the Church.

Certainly some parishes are “grayer” than others. But mathematically, if members of the Church were avoiding contraception, it should be growing exponentially from within (excluding conversions). According to statistics in the US, it is only growing at a rate of 1-2% and the proportion of Catholics within the world’s population should be increasing dramatically - but instead is holding steady at 17.5% - Annuarium Statisticum Eccleasiae per Catholicculture.org.

By this alone, we can easily assume Birth Control is in abundant use.
According to The American Enterprise Institute, 78% of Catholics believe the Church should allow Catholics to use birth control. Other statistics support a number in this ballpark, and I would hazard to say that anything over 10% is a dangerous number if we truly believe that this is grave matter that can find our brothers and sisters facing eternal damnation. Could one imagine 80% of the 12 apostles abandoning Christ with grave sin?

Birth Control (and birth control mentality) is so rampant - why doesn’t Our Lady specifically address this? Or does she?

Why should she? The Church has already done a good job of it. Our Lady doesn’t hand down doctrine. God does, and his authorized body for such a job is his Church, not our Lady.

It could be that the only job of defining and bringing attention to particular sins is the job of the men in the Church. It’s a possible reason for Her not saying anything about it.

However, one might think She couldn’t help but say something about the sin, because this sin, in particular, is preventing Her children - potentially billions of them - from life. In other words - billions of “no’s” from Her own Catholics in contradiction to Her great “Yes”, her “Fiat”.

Could there be a better reason Our Lady remains “mum” on the topic? Could it be a reason that so many priests and bishops remain “mum” as well?

Am I missing something here? What topics has she been speaking on when she’s not speaking about contraception? Also, why are you asking this question here instead of just asking her directly?

I’m reminded of a concluding line from Jesus’ parable about the rich man and Lazarus.

“If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they listen if someone rises from the dead.” (Luke 16:31)

By analogy, if someone will not listen to the Church on contraception, they won’t listen to an apparition of the Blessed Mother either.

As I understand it , our Blessed Mother did allude to contraception in an approved apparition.

But in order to see it, we must first differentiate between contraception within marriage and contraception outside of marriage.

  1. Contraception within marriage* closes* the conjugal act between married spouses to procreativity -closes the act to life. It also negatively affects the unitive meaning - it effectively renders the conjugal act between married spouses non-marital ; in that it goes against that which marriage is ordered to.

  2. Premarital sex ,* “is deprived of the marital meaning, and therefore is intrinsically evil and always gravely immoral.”* It is a sin of the flesh. Contraception is secondary in this case, although it does seem to facilitate or encourage this particular sin - the principle is that we do not engage in it.

So essentially we have:

*1. Marriage which is non-marital therefore not good because the spouses aren’t cooperating with God’s grace.

  1. Sin of the flesh.*

Now , consider what our Blessed Mother said at Fatima about those two things:

  1. “Many marriages are not good; they do not please Our Lord and are not of God.”
  1. “More souls go to Hell because of the sins of the flesh than for any other reason.”

:shrug:

salvemariaregina.info/Message.html

ronconte.wordpress.com/2011/10/06/marital-unitive-procreative-meanings/

Our Lady in such Private Revelations does not get into specific sins usually.

But rather all sin - especially sin that is serious sin (mortal sins).

Any such serious sin is of grave concern of Our Lady.

This. :thumbsup:

So it seems like there are three very distinct roles being played each with their own loose boundaries (feel free to comment):

Our Lady provides:
[LIST]
*]A loving, motherly Image
*]Miracles to provide credibility to her appearances
*]A highly concerned, grief-ridden Image for those who are committed to Sin (with few specifics).
*]A warning that the Heavenly Father’s Hand of Justice is barely being held back and will come crashing down due to our rebellious behaviors.
*]Her boundaries stop at speaking out regarding specific sins and errors (even rampant ones). She does speak about some sins - but mostly vaguely.
*]She impacts millions of Catholics when she appears.
[/LIST]

The Teachings of the Church provide:
[LIST]
*]Plenty of Specifics: Guidance that is very “tough” mirroring & interpreting Jesus’ often very “tough” teachings.
*]This Teaching specifically draws attention to injustice: that is what is contrary to God’s Perfect Justice.
*]These teachings are protected from the Gates of Hell and are placed on The Rock of Peter.
*]These teachings are most specifically written in Canon Law, but for the public - in the Catechism.
*]The language - while loving - is often strict - again reflecting Jesus’ Voice of God’s Justice.
*]Unlike our Lady, the teachings tend to avoid emotional, motherly pleas to save souls or to provide measurement/scope to the risks at hand.
*]The information is easily accessible (especially w/ the Catechism) to most high-school + level educated adult Catholics. But only attracts serious the attention of those who are truly interested in Christian Discipleship and what all that entails. So it directly impacts a few million (my guess)
*] But there is a foundational and trickle-down affect that keeps heresy in check when heresies become prominent enough. This provides rules for Priests throughout the world.
[/LIST]

Priests and Bishops provide:
[LIST]
*]Warm, inviting Parishes reaching out to neighbors (neighbors) everywhere - very present globally - preaching the Gospel everywhere.
*]They provide the Sacraments to strengthen the faithful.
*]They emphasize the “Good News” of Communion and Love, but, similar to Our Lady tend to avoid spending much emphasis on the hard Teachings of the Church.
*]One could say that the Parishes emphasize God’s Mercy and tend to avoid the “bad cop” role of God’s Justice and the emotional cries of Our Lady to save souls.
*]Unlike our Lady, they also tend to avoid “end of world”/“God’s Justice” warnings.
*] They impact the full Church: over a billion Catholics.

[/LIST]

Net, net - Each provides an important role, but each role is quite different in how it is manifested.

So to put it simply (with a broad brush stroke):
[LIST]
*]Parishes are to “get them in the Family”. Parishes appeal to Communion and Mercy. In some sense - it provides the broadest road: a foundational starting point.
*]Our Lady appeals to Christian Hearts through Motherhood. Her role is to get them committed to Christian Discipleship on a high level (to avoid sin and establish a prayer life). Thus the emphasis on “Consecration”. In a very real sense, She draws Christian seekers to the narrower road of Christian Discipleship. She uses Miracles to provide credibility and draw attention to Her Messages.
*]The Teachings are to specifically help Christian Disciples embrace the narrowest road of Christian Sanctity: to become compliant for Heaven (staying in Grace), carrying the cross of their vocations and producing meritorious acts of charity as well as provide awareness of the many pitfalls along the narrow path.
[/LIST]

So if each “entity” provides a bridge toward Christian Sanctity - then it makes sense that a Christian in one step cannot easily understand those in a different step. For example:

Someone seeking good, clean friendships and community are drawn to the neighborhood parish. They look at Marian followers as crazy and Catechists as doctrinal fanatics who take things too seriously.

The Marian follower likewise looks at the typical Parishioner as painfully ignorant of Our Mother’s desperate cries for help and can’t understand why they ignore all the miracles and warnings. They promote the rosary and sacramental heavily. They tend to be all Heart and they tend to look at Catechists as legalists.

The Catechist tends to see the typical Parishioner as blissfully ignorant of sin - for example holding hands and going to Communion while at night time promoting Contraception. The Catechist sees the Marian followers as blubbering zealots who wear lots of medals and suggest that the rosary is the solution to every problem. They seem them fall into confusion and self-inflicted crosses all to often. They realize that Christian Discipleship as much more complex than simply praying the rosary and the sacraments.

But the true answer is that a Christian Saint needs to have the child-like attitude of the hymn-singing, hand-holding Parishioner, the Desperate Motherly Love of the rosary-praying Marian as well as the mature savvy of a well trained Catechist to navigate this complex world and the complex snares of the Devil. Only when all three of these roles are embraced can one move toward Perfection along the painfully complex and narrow road of the Cross.

Wow. I don’t know who you are, but I sincerely hope you’re in a position of authority somewhere. These paragraphs need to be printed in every bulletin in every parish in the country, immediately. You stated everything perfectly. The Church would be SO much more effective in the world if we could all just surrender our attachments to our contrived self-identities and simply pursue your excellent definition of sainthood. Thank you for this! :thumbsup:

Feel free to use it as you see fit of course, clean up the grammar. :slight_smile:

I just couldn’t figure it out. Why was She always crying and warning us but rarely talking about the specifics to help navigate us through this insanely crazy modern era?

Your replies made sense and addressed the puzzle piece. I think She is filling a gap between the warm pastoral Parish Priest and the Harsh Truth. She is communicating with boundaries between these two.

She is being very sensitive to help the Christian progress from neighborly love to deep prayer and ultimately preparing the Marian for the Way of the Cross - pointing them back to the Teachings of the Church.

Unfortunately so. Iwishiknew is trying to unite what looks like a false dilemma between the Marian’s and the catechists. But when Our Lady Herself said that very few will listen to Her, I am not so sure that the false dilemma was ever there to begin with.

It is a very real dilemma.

For example, it is commonly found in solid Catholic seminaries. They will greatly emphasize the importance of Doctrine, but will spend very little time focused on the jaw dropping events of approved apparitions and the messages conveyed by God. Because they are unnecessary, they are not an important theme in the Curriculum, at best deprioritized under other topics.

This isn’t out of spite, but more to help move the focus to the many complexities of pastoral care.

The seminarian walks out armed with doctrine, language and psychology, but with very little of the Marian spirit which is they may have had when they entered - or more likely than not, the Marian spirit that their mothers had. They have lost the wonder that was so evident in the Apostles when they were seminarians following Jesus’ miraculous journey.

If the newly educated priest is not careful - he can find himself quickly looking down on scapulars, rosaries and even the apparitions themselves as border-line superstitious and unimportant events. The importance of Our Lady’s role and influence from her many appearances becomes lost. And with that is lost Her perspective, Her emotional cries for Her children, Her warnings of a very real Satan & Hell and the pleas for heartfelt prayer.

And when that happens, we find priests who cannot perform miracles as instructed - and dare I say required - by Christ. Priests no longer play a role in casting out demons(they no longer believe in evil spirits that possess people and can read them their sins. A diocese is blessed to have a Bishop who appoints an Exorcist), Priests no longer heal (and only rely on doctors even when doctors can’t heal) nor perform other Miracles(other than the Sacraments which truly are invisible Miracles). Christ never said that priests should stop performing miracles after the Apostles died off. He never withdrew His instructions.

As time goes on and day to day Parish work takes over his attention, the Priest often loses touch with his Doctrinal training and now becomes only a Community Organizer, Sacrament Performer and a teacher of kindness.

The ideal structure is likely to have only one role: Priest, Prophet (Teacher) and King (including Miracle worker). All priests should be loving pastors, fully aware of the loss of souls, and armed to the hilt in the Teachings of the Holy Spirit & the Magesterium of the Church. However, reality is not that: in this day an age, the role is split into three.

So Our Lady comes to fill this role of miracle-working, soul pleader, healer and loving Mother for those who accept Her - and She seems to limit Her role to just that.

Since She has a true body, She could do Pastoral work similar to Mother Theresa should God so desire. Or She could appear in every Parish and become a visible, Heavenly Priestly assistant as She assisted Her Son with His Mission or as She assisted the Apostles in their early days. Neither does She visit the Bishops when they are in session to map out to them the answers to doctrinal questions that have yet to be addressed. She doesn’t even directly discuss Contraception. God and She limits the role She plays in Marian apparitions.

So one can see that there is a true dilemma that is very real, with very really consequences.

And that is just an example - there are plenty of others.

Iwishiknew

I believe you misunderstood me. I get what you are saying. But it is not supposed to be a dilemma. It is not supposed to be a true dilemma. But, it is. Which is why I said what I said. It is actually unreasonable to label it a dilemma. But if seminaries are now churning out legalists who spurn Marian devotions, then it is unreasonable to expect the Marian’s to yield. There are too many graces lost this way. Way too many. For everyone. And plus, the Marian’s are a very learned group too. I don’t know if you know what you are asking for, that’s all.

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