Does the doctrine of purgatory suggest that the Blood of Jesus was not enough to cleanse from sin?

Does the doctrine of purgatory suggest that the Blood of Jesus was not enough to cleanse from sin?

No. Jesus’s Blood is the only way we can be cleansed from sin. The way I see it though, although I might be wrong in the details, is that the suffering of pain is a different issue. In Baptism, for instance the pain of the cleansing from sin is suffered by Jesus on our behalf, as well as sin being cleansed. But after that, the suffering due to the cleansing of sin must be suffered by us, here or in purgatory, or shared with others via indulgences.

peace
steve

To answer the question in a word…no. Jesus’ suffer is enough so that we do not have to enter purgatory.

Then why is their purgatory?
To make it purfectly clear, it is not that Jesus’ suffering isn’t enough.
But rather our own dispositions are at fault to receive the fullest measure of his sufferings.

The same question might be raised in reference to the precious body and blood received in holy communion. Why doesn’t a person who receives holy communion not receive the fullest benefits of his graces? For the same reason, we are not in a perfect harmonious disposition to receive those kinds of benefits. We are human and broken. And so we receive some but not all.

But St. Teresa said something different. She claims that noone need go there. The source for this is no longer online.

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.

Similar to the way that the waters of baptism on earth cleanse us from Original Sin and all our past personal sins because those waters are empowered by Christ’s sacrificial death on the Cross, I like to think that the fires of Purgatory cleanse us from any remaining temporal effect of our sins remaining after death because those fires too are empowered by Christ’s sacrificial death on the Cross. This understanding of Purgatory reaffirms the sufficiency of Christ’s sacrificial death.

No not at all

It is in fact Jesus and his work that cleanses is of our attachment to sin in a process of Purgatory.

Check this blog out. CS Lewis Believed in Purgatory. findingthecatholicchurch.blogspot.com/2013/02/cs-lewis-believed-in-purgatory-rightly.html?m=1

Here is one quote:

"The transforming ‘moment’ of this encounter cannot be quantified by the measurements of earthly time. It is, indeed, not eternal but a transition, and yet trying to qualify it as of ‘short’ or ‘long’ duration on the basis of temporal measurements derived from physics would be naive and unproductive. The ‘temporal measure’ of this encounter lies in the unsoundable depths of existence, in a passing-over where we are burned ere we are transformed. To measure such Existenzzeit, such an ‘existential time,’ in terms of the time of this world would be to ignore the specificity of the human spirit in its simultaneous relationship with, and differentation from, the world.
. . .
"[Purgatory] is the inwardly necessary process of transformation in which a person becomes capable of Christ, capable of God and thus capable of unity with the whole communion of saints.
. . .
“Encounter with the Lord is this transformation.”…

–Joseph Ratzinger, Eschatology: Death and Eternal Life, p. 230-231

First of all, Purgatory is the entrance to Heaven. As such, all souls in Purgatory are in a state of grace, which means that their sins have already been forgiven and that they have accepted the forgiveness of God. However, these souls still have attachment to worldly desires and the sins that accompany them. As such, the process of Purgatory is to strip away the worldly desires and attachment to sins. The sins themselves, though, have already been forgiven.

eucharist04. You asked:

QUOTE:
Does the doctrine of purgatory suggest that the Blood of Jesus was not enough to cleanse from sin?

Many good answers already. I’ll attempt to add to it.

At the end of a person’s earthly life there may be attachment to sin remaining. There may be a need for further sanctification . . . . . as we know “nothing unclean” can enter Heaven (see Rev. 21:25-27).

We must be “sanctified wholly”, not just partially.

1st THESSALONIANS 5:23-24 23 May the God of peace Himself
sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept sound and blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 He who calls you is faithful and He will do it.

In Heaven we have the spirits of just men made perfect. Are we all made perfect here on earth? Some are, but many are not yet perfect. But all in Heaven ARE perfect.

HEBREWS 12:22-24 22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, 23 and to the assembly of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven, and to a judge who is God of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks more graciously than the blood of Abel.

Well the question that would remain is HOW did those souls ultimately get perfected?

By Christ’s work (“He will do it”). And even once in Heaven Christ will eventually do more for us in giving us back our bodies too (only at the final Resurrection we of course obtain a GLORIFIED body).

How does ALL of this take place?

By grace.

WHERE did that grace ultimately come from?

From the work of Jesus Christ.

That’s WHY He who began a good work in you, brings it to completion on the “day of the Lord”. In one sense that “day of the Lord” is when we enter Heaven, and in another sense, it is at the end of time. But to be in Heaven we need to be “pure and blameless”.

PHILIPPIANS 1:9a, 10a 9 And it is my prayer that your love may abound more and more, . . . . 10 so that you may . . . be pure and blameless for the day of Christ, . . . .

Well how did/will we OBTAIN such purity? How did/will we obtain such blamelessness?

Fortunately the very next verse (Phil 1:11) tells us.

PHILIPPIANS 1:9a, 10a, 11 9 And it is my prayer that your love may abound more and more, . . . . 10 so that you may . . . may be pure and blameless for the day of Christ, . . . .11 filled with the fruits of righteousness which come through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.

But notice there is something to complete. This does NOT imply Christ’s work is lacking. It rather tells us HOW this comes about.

This is WHY St. Paul can say just a few verses earlier:

**
PHILIPPIANS 1:6** 6 And I am sure that He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Also, even people who deny Purgatory must explain WHY the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23).

What’s the matter? **Wasn’t Christ’s sacrifice sufficient? **

YES. Christ’s sacrifice IS sufficient! But sufficient for what?

Sufficient that we DON’T have to suffer and die? . . . . . OR . . . . SUFFICIENT that we can have a participation, or a sharing, or a koinonia, IN Christ Jesus’ suffering, death, and Resurrection?

The Bible Christian correctly sees the “participation” part for “the wages of sin” (death). But they (often) incorrectly DENY the “participation” part in us having an “account” for our sin.

That being said, we can only pay a TEMPORAL account. We could NOT pay an eternal account because we are not eternal beings. We are not God.

But we still must pay a temporal account.

That’s WHY St. Paul tells us

ROMANS 8:17b 17b (We are) heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

There is that “participation” (“WITH Him”) or “sharing” or “koinonia” concept again.

We often are in NEED of purgation because we must pay an (temporal not eternal) account for EVERY wrong word we utter (how much more wrong actions?). And so if we don’t pay the temporal part of this account here on earth, we pay it on the day of judgment.

MATTHEW 12:36-37 36 I tell you, on the day of judgment men will render account for every careless word they utter; 37 for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

I modeled my answer more for a Bible Christian (Bible verses).

If you want, I can go through the whole post again with Catechism and Church Father quotes instead of Bible verses to help fill it out.

Hope this helps.

God bless.

Cathoholic

The Blood of Jesus simply made it possible for us not to die forever.
Made it possible for us to be forgiven and eventually see Heaven.
Didn’t give us a license to sin…that still remains to us to remedy…didn’t give us a free pass to heaven…that too remains to us to choose…through atonement and purification of our souls.

The blood of Jesus cleanses us from sin.

Purgatory cleanses us from the desire to sin. Purgatory perfects us. You have to be perfect to enter Heaven, not just free from sin.

-Tim-

No it does not suggest such. Rather it can be said that it is Jesus who is finishing ones purification.

Thanks for the many quotes about Purgatory above. Good job.
For more on the Biblicalness on Purgatory, please see

http://www.defendingthebride.com/sc/purgatory.html#bible

Here is a good quote that helps explain the fire in Purgatory:Another difference is that the fires of hell are destructive, whereas the fires of purgatory are purifying, like the fire that refines gold (as St Paul points out).
In addition to this, the Holy Father points out that the fire described by Saint Paul is nothing other than the soul’s encounter with Jesus! He writes: “The fire which both burns and saves is Christ himself, the Judge and Saviour. The encounter with Him is the decisive act of judgement. Before His gaze all falsehood melts away. This encounter with Him, as it burns us, transforms and frees us, allowing us to become truly ourselves. … But it is a blessed pain, in which the holy power of His love sears through us like a flame, enabling us to become totally ourselves and thus totally of God.”
Described like this, we see not only how necessary purgatory is, but also how desirable it is. Far from being afraid of purgatory, we even begin to hope for it.
Read More at

defendingthebride.com/sc/purgatory.html#fire

And now to my main point here,
Protestants with their objection that
“Christ’s suffering is all sufficient therefore there is no Purgatory”
actually are making too little of Christ’s suffering by failing to recognize all that His suffering accomplishes, such as making Purgatory possible. A world without a Purgatory actually would make God and His sufferings less than what they are.
.
If you get my point … :smiley:
.
.

I do get your point, but I doubt that most protestants would get it easily.
The Protestant view of Purgatory is that it is a punishment…a sort of mini-hell.
Common misperception…
Thus they are not likely to see it as a welcome thing…a blessing… the way Catholics do.

No, God is perfectly merciful and perfectly just. Jesus’s sacrifice forgave our sins, but we still need to atone from them.

If we don’t succeed in atoning for all our sins at the time of death, we make up for that in Purgatory. “Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny” - Matt 5:26

This is how I understand it…

Without the Blood of Jesus, there wouldn’t be any purgatory.
Without purgatory, I might be just, but still unperfected (Hebrews 12:23).

We do not have to atone for our sins, Christ did that for us on the Cross.
Hebrews 9:7-28
Hebrews 2: 17-18
1 John 2:2

He sure did. I’m glad at least one person has quoted the Bible, namely Hebrews; which I don’t believe supports purgatory.

So we can sin as much as we want?
All those times he mentioned repentance, he was just blathering?
I think not.

Are you saying that your fear of a prolonged torture/torment is what keeps you from “just sinning as much as we want”?

I believe others have give Bible references …perhaps they weren’t ones to your liking.

The Holy Spirit in me and my love for Jesus causes me to repent and He will forgive and CLEANSE from sin. 1 John 1:9:D

Thank you Jesus for your ever cleansing stream, your shed blood.:thumbsup::smiley:

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